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Old 03-31-2005, 08:54 PM   #31
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I can't wait until I get a car, sitting on a bus for two hours a day 5 days a week is not fun.
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Old 03-31-2005, 09:10 PM   #32
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Look, it's completely unrealistic to tell people to suck it up and deal with it. If you had 3 kids under the age of 5, I bet you'd be dragging them on public buses and subways and trains if you could afford a car. Give me a break. Try it for a week during the 5 pm rush hour in a city of 6 million and then see that it's just not going to happen. And not everybody who lives in the suburbs lives in a mansion with an SUV. I don't know where this bizarre idea arose. Try getting a decent place in the downtown cores of most large cities, and people just can't afford it on today's salaries. Also, people move to the better school districts, people move to larger properties so they can have large dogs and so on. This idea that you can live without a car in our society doesn't fly for a huge (majority?) of the population.

That said, I don't complain about gas prices, however. The way I see it, without my car, I would travel 3 hours per day. With it, I travel about half that time. To me, my time is worth every penny the gas pays, because it allows me extra time with my family, it allows me to go work out after work and still have time for dinner and TV and whatever else I want to do. That's priceless.

But I made that choice and so I pay what it costs. You really can't have it both ways these days anymore.
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Old 03-31-2005, 09:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

do you really think a democrat would do something as unabashedly stupid and callous as drill in ANWAR?
If such a Democrat were from Alaska, or if such a Democrat were strictly loyal to the wishes of several labor unions, it is quite possible that such a Democrat would support "responsible exploration" in the ANWR region. I am not saying that this is right or wrong or even whether I agree with the exploration there.

During the 1990s and up into Bush's first term, there was much debate here in the Southeast about drilling in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico, primarily for natural gas but ultimately for oil and gas in general. The Eastern Gulf of Mexico extends from just east of the Mobile Bay in Alabama all the way to the Florida Keys. You can go to Alabama's Gulf Coast today and see two different seascapes: anywhere you look out from the western coastal county of Mobile towards the Gulf, you will see oil rigs, some just a few hundred yards fromt he shore of Dauphin Island. Bt on the eastern coast in Baldwin County, you simply see the emerald waters of the Gulf of Mexico. There were fortunately no rigs in the eastern Alabama Gulf and Florida Gulf because of a strict moratorium forbidding drilling in the Eastern Gulf. Clinton was willing to allow the moratorium to expire, as had been former and now late Florida Governor Lawton Chiles. Others WANTING it to expire were Republican and Democratic politicians in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Alabama stood to make royalties off of new gas pumped off of its shores, and all three states would make money off of product pumped through the coastal pipeline going to New Orleans. Alabama's former Democratic governor (Seigelman), Tennessee's foghorn leghorn Republican Senator Trent Lott and former Democratic governor, and both of Louisiana's Democratic Senators (Breaux and Landrieu) supported lifting the moratorium off of drilling in the Eastern Gulf. When Bush came into office, fears were rampant that he was going to completely lift it and allow the placement of rigs as close and frequent as those in the Western Gulf.

Well, thank God for Florida, because Governor Jeb Bush and a bi-partisan congressional delegation led by Reps Scarborough (R-Pensacola) and Davis (D-Tampa) kept the moratorium in place for the most part, although unfortunately drilling rights were granted for a limited area 200 miles off shore (I would rather none be allowed in the Eastern Gulf). The Florida leaders knew that their state's unique environment was more important to the long-term future of their state than oil and gas exploration, while the then-governor of Alabama apparently would have been happy putting rigs out in the Gulf so that vacationers could wake up to the view of them every morning from the balcony of their hotel room at Gulf State Park. Trent Lott even made the idiotic statement that "Those oil rigs are some of the best fishin' spots out there!" Obviously any submerged structure is going to attract marine life, but if any of these rigs were to exprience a leak from an accident or hurricane or earthquake, you can go ahead and forecast lower yields for commercial and recreational deepsea fishing (both of which are valuable to Florida).

But I must confess: I drive a Jeep Cherokee (19 MPG) because I need its versatility quite often. Also, I live in the suburbs because the housing is much more affordable than in the neighborhoods closer to the city and my town has the lowest crime rate for a city of 10,000+ in the state. And I haven't complained to any of you about the gas prices.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:54 AM   #34
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The aspect of the rising gas prices that amazes me is that the price seems to go up every 2-3 days, 2 cents at a time. In the past, increases generally took place on a weekly basis.
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:40 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Look, it's completely unrealistic to tell people to suck it up and deal with it. If you had 3 kids under the age of 5, I bet you'd be dragging them on public buses and subways and trains if you could afford a car. Give me a break. Try it for a week during the 5 pm rush hour in a city of 6 million and then see that it's just not going to happen. And not everybody who lives in the suburbs lives in a mansion with an SUV. I don't know where this bizarre idea arose. Try getting a decent place in the downtown cores of most large cities, and people just can't afford it on today's salaries. Also, people move to the better school districts, people move to larger properties so they can have large dogs and so on. This idea that you can live without a car in our society doesn't fly for a huge (majority?) of the population.

the point is not to tell people to stop driving cars (nice as that would be), the point is that higher gas prices, and a gas tax, would force people to make better decisions about how they consume fuel. do we really need to drive the mile down the road, or could we get on a bike or walk? could we petition our local governments for better sidewalks? bus system? could a portion of the gas tax pay for some of this? could we start to carpool to work? could we demand better gas mileage when we purchase our cars? can we demand from our politicians that they stop classifying SUVs as light trucks and make them beholden to the same fuel standards that cars are? could we all live closer to urban centers? could we demand less open space and massive backyards that require a mountain of poisonous fertilizer to keep it greener than the neighbor's?

having grown up in the suburbs, i'm fully aware of the depenence we unfortunatley have on the automobile. however, my sympathy extends only so far, and i think that if people feel the need to drive as much as they do, they should have to pay for it. no one is saying "no cars;" but i am saying, "make better choices and get used to the fact that our gas is criminally low and is pretty much reponsible for all the main problems in the US: pollution, obesity, and entanglements and deals with nasty foreign governments."
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:42 AM   #36
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But I made that choice and so I pay what it costs. You really can't have it both ways these days anymore.



that's pretty much all i'm saying.
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:05 AM   #37
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!

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



the point is not to tell people to stop driving cars (nice as that would be), the point is that higher gas prices, and a gas tax, would force people to make better decisions about how they consume fuel. do we really need to drive the mile down the road, or could we get on a bike or walk? could we petition our local governments for better sidewalks? bus system? could a portion of the gas tax pay for some of this? could we start to carpool to work? could we demand better gas mileage when we purchase our cars? can we demand from our politicians that they stop classifying SUVs as light trucks and make them beholden to the same fuel standards that cars are? could we all live closer to urban centers? could we demand less open space and massive backyards that require a mountain of poisonous fertilizer to keep it greener than the neighbor's?

having grown up in the suburbs, i'm fully aware of the depenence we unfortunatley have on the automobile. however, my sympathy extends only so far, and i think that if people feel the need to drive as much as they do, they should have to pay for it. no one is saying "no cars;" but i am saying, "make better choices and get used to the fact that our gas is criminally low and is pretty much reponsible for all the main problems in the US: pollution, obesity, and entanglements and deals with nasty foreign governments."
But not everyone lives in a place where public transportation is the answer!! And don't forget that for a large number of Americans in this large and spread out country, their commute is not something you can bike or walk to. What, you gonna bike up the interstate for 50 miles? Gonna walk 35 miles, better get going at 4 am and hope the weather is nice What about shopping, how are you going to carry all your stuff home? I think a lot of inner city Americans and some Europeans cannot comprehend how a large part of our country is spread out, not close to business, and dependant on cars.

Bus and train lines simply won't work in most of the country. In many many places, the population is just too sparse to ever even consider it.I live in an area of 1,000,000 (several cities combined) and the busses only run down certain places. All attempts at light rail have been rejected since there is basically no place to put it in the congestion of an old, built up area. Carpool? Not everyone can find someone to ride with! My husband looked into rideshare and found no one going his way at his time. Also, people have come to value their independance and privacy.

Besides these reasons why it won't work for most of America, the thing that's pissing me off is that this is not the point! Don't give in and stop buying gas, we need to fight and let them know we won't accept it and that they should release the emergency stores or they will keep gouging us!

A few more comments: Melon, I won't be voting democratic, I don't believe for a second they're any better. Until a viable third party, or lack of party candidate emerges, we're fucked.

And please don't keep bashing SUV owners! I don't own one myself, I have a small Chevy and gas is killing me. But when they bought those things gas was cheaper. Our government is failing us, don't let it happen. Don't just give in and say oh well start walking. If you don't pay, someone else will. Americans love their cars (and as I've pointed out it's NECESSARY for a majority of our population!)

And one more thing, the gas tax. I HATE it when 'tax' comes up the answer to everything, (which is the main reason I strongly dislike the dems) All that money just goes into a pile and gets wasted, it will never go to where it's intended. If there is money it will be spent and it's coming out of all our pockets. There is already about a fucking 60 cent a gallon tax already and I still see potholes. Wake up!
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Old 04-01-2005, 01:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



petition your local goverments for better mass transit options. if the demand were there, if people were forced to find options behind their cars, they'd certainly find a way. most of the reason for urban sprawl is the omnipresence of the automobile. i also see nothing wrong with a little pressure to get people to find alternative means of transportation via a tax, or even to start carpooling or drive more fuel efficient cars.
LOL as if its that simple. The city government is pathetic and is operating under a budget deficit with cuts forthcoming. We're talking about a city that could not get air conditioning installed for Memphis public schools for over a decade resulting in kids going home early from school b/c it was too freakin hot in the spring.

I'm just griping. Retail wise... wholesalers and retailers are very much affected though. I'm actually griping about that more then paying at the pump for my car... however I still bitch and moan when I fill up.
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:33 PM   #39
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99.9 cents a litre (Canadian cents )

I think that works out to almost $3.78 a gallon
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:44 PM   #40
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Re: !

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Originally posted by U2Kitten
And please don't keep bashing SUV owners! I don't own one myself, I have a small Chevy and gas is killing me. But when they bought those things gas was cheaper. Our government is failing us, don't let it happen. Don't just give in and say oh well start walking. If you don't pay, someone else will. Americans love their cars (and as I've pointed out it's NECESSARY for a majority of our population!)
SUV owners might have bought those when gas was cheaper, but those vehicles were also gas guzzlers then. So they knew they were putting an increased demand on oil, depleting the resources even faster. And they could also foresee that when gas prices rise, the costs of SUVs also rise fast.
Increased gas prices (and a gas tax) may force people to finally think about how inefficient those cars are and how they can save on gas.

*tries to calculate what the gas price is here*
From memory, 1 gallon is about 4 liter. The price of regular gas here is 1.325 euro/liter so that's ~ 5.3 euro/gallon. Convert that to US dollars and you have 6.84 dollar/gallon.

So what are some complaining about?
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:53 PM   #41
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I just think that the rate of SUV ownership in the US points out just how pathetically small the average US male's penis really is.

Now THAT'S something to get hot and bothered about!
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:54 PM   #42
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I own a Fiat Panda (the original)
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:56 PM   #43
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Ohhh! No insecurity there!
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Old 04-01-2005, 04:39 PM   #44
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So don't tell people to stop using cars, force them to by taxation .
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:27 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
This is scary. The price of everything has gone up seemingly 10-20% in the last 10 years, yet the minimum wage remains constant at $5.15 per hour.
Hi!

What? You can't make ends meet?

This is where you need to think outside of the box.........

carol
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