Gas Prices

[A_Wanderer]

I can't wait until I get a car, sitting on a bus for two hours a day 5 days a week is not fun.

 

[anitram]

Look, it's completely unrealistic to tell people to suck it up and deal with it. If you had 3 kids under the age of 5, I bet you'd be dragging them on public buses and subways and trains if you could afford a car. Give me a break. Try it for a week during the 5 pm rush hour in a city of 6 million and then see that it's just not going to happen. And not everybody who lives in the suburbs lives in a mansion with an SUV. I don't know where this bizarre idea arose. Try getting a decent place in the downtown cores of most large cities, and people just can't afford it on today's salaries. Also, people move to the better school districts, people move to larger properties so they can have large dogs and so on. This idea that you can live without a car in our society doesn't fly for a huge (majority?) of the population.

That said, I don't complain about gas prices, however. The way I see it, without my car, I would travel 3 hours per day. With it, I travel about half that time. To me, my time is worth every penny the gas pays, because it allows me extra time with my family, it allows me to go work out after work and still have time for dinner and TV and whatever else I want to do. That's priceless.

But I made that choice and so I pay what it costs. You really can't have it both ways these days anymore.

 

[U2Bama]

do you really think a democrat would do something as unabashedly stupid and callous as drill in ANWAR?

If such a Democrat were from Alaska, or if such a Democrat were strictly loyal to the wishes of several labor unions, it is quite possible that such a Democrat would support "responsible exploration" in the ANWR region. I am not saying that this is right or wrong or even whether I agree with the exploration there.

During the 1990s and up into Bush's first term, there was much debate here in the Southeast about drilling in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico, primarily for natural gas but ultimately for oil and gas in general. The Eastern Gulf of Mexico extends from just east of the Mobile Bay in Alabama all the way to the Florida Keys. You can go to Alabama's Gulf Coast today and see two different seascapes: anywhere you look out from the western coastal county of Mobile towards the Gulf, you will see oil rigs, some just a few hundred yards fromt he shore of Dauphin Island. Bt on the eastern coast in Baldwin County, you simply see the emerald waters of the Gulf of Mexico. There were fortunately no rigs in the eastern Alabama Gulf and Florida Gulf because of a strict moratorium forbidding drilling in the Eastern Gulf. Clinton was willing to allow the moratorium to expire, as had been former and now late Florida Governor Lawton Chiles. Others WANTING it to expire were Republican and Democratic politicians in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Alabama stood to make royalties off of new gas pumped off of its shores, and all three states would make money off of product pumped through the coastal pipeline going to New Orleans. Alabama's former Democratic governor (Seigelman), Tennessee's foghorn leghorn Republican Senator Trent Lott and former Democratic governor, and both of Louisiana's Democratic Senators (Breaux and Landrieu) supported lifting the moratorium off of drilling in the Eastern Gulf. When Bush came into office, fears were rampant that he was going to completely lift it and allow the placement of rigs as close and frequent as those in the Western Gulf.

Well, thank God for Florida, because Governor Jeb Bush and a bi-partisan congressional delegation led by Reps Scarborough (R-Pensacola) and Davis (D-Tampa) kept the moratorium in place for the most part, although unfortunately drilling rights were granted for a limited area 200 miles off shore (I would rather none be allowed in the Eastern Gulf). The Florida leaders knew that their state's unique environment was more important to the long-term future of their state than oil and gas exploration, while the then-governor of Alabama apparently would have been happy putting rigs out in the Gulf so that vacationers could wake up to the view of them every morning from the balcony of their hotel room at Gulf State Park. Trent Lott even made the idiotic statement that "Those oil rigs are some of the best fishin' spots out there!" Obviously any submerged structure is going to attract marine life, but if any of these rigs were to exprience a leak from an accident or hurricane or earthquake, you can go ahead and forecast lower yields for commercial and recreational deepsea fishing (both of which are valuable to Florida).

But I must confess: I drive a Jeep Cherokee (19 MPG) because I need its versatility quite often. Also, I live in the suburbs because the housing is much more affordable than in the neighborhoods closer to the city and my town has the lowest crime rate for a city of 10,000+ in the state. And I haven't complained to any of you about the gas prices.

~U2Alabama

 

[Diane L]

The aspect of the rising gas prices that amazes me is that the price seems to go up every 2-3 days, 2 cents at a time. In the past, increases generally took place on a weekly basis.

 

[Irvine511]

Look, it's completely unrealistic to tell people to suck it up and deal with it. If you had 3 kids under the age of 5, I bet you'd be dragging them on public buses and subways and trains if you could afford a car. Give me a break. Try it for a week during the 5 pm rush hour in a city of 6 million and then see that it's just not going to happen. And not everybody who lives in the suburbs lives in a mansion with an SUV. I don't know where this bizarre idea arose. Try getting a decent place in the downtown cores of most large cities, and people just can't afford it on today's salaries. Also, people move to the better school districts, people move to larger properties so they can have large dogs and so on. This idea that you can live without a car in our society doesn't fly for a huge (majority?) of the population.

the point is not to tell people to stop driving cars (nice as that would be), the point is that higher gas prices, and a gas tax, would force people to make better decisions about how they consume fuel. do we really need to drive the mile down the road, or could we get on a bike or walk? could we petition our local governments for better sidewalks? bus system? could a portion of the gas tax pay for some of this? could we start to carpool to work? could we demand better gas mileage when we purchase our cars? can we demand from our politicians that they stop classifying SUVs as light trucks and make them beholden to the same fuel standards that cars are? could we all live closer to urban centers? could we demand less open space and massive backyards that require a mountain of poisonous fertilizer to keep it greener than the neighbor's?

having grown up in the suburbs, i'm fully aware of the depenence we unfortunatley have on the automobile. however, my sympathy extends only so far, and i think that if people feel the need to drive as much as they do, they should have to pay for it. no one is saying "no cars;" but i am saying, "make better choices and get used to the fact that our gas is criminally low and is pretty much reponsible for all the main problems in the US: pollution, obesity, and entanglements and deals with nasty foreign governments."

 

[Irvine511]

But I made that choice and so I pay what it costs. You really can't have it both ways these days anymore.

that's pretty much all i'm saying.

 

[U2Kitten]

!

the point is not to tell people to stop driving cars (nice as that would be), the point is that higher gas prices, and a gas tax, would force people to make better decisions about how they consume fuel. do we really need to drive the mile down the road, or could we get on a bike or walk? could we petition our local governments for better sidewalks? bus system? could a portion of the gas tax pay for some of this? could we start to carpool to work? could we demand better gas mileage when we purchase our cars? can we demand from our politicians that they stop classifying SUVs as light trucks and make them beholden to the same fuel standards that cars are? could we all live closer to urban centers? could we demand less open space and massive backyards that require a mountain of poisonous fertilizer to keep it greener than the neighbor's?

having grown up in the suburbs, i'm fully aware of the depenence we unfortunatley have on the automobile. however, my sympathy extends only so far, and i think that if people feel the need to drive as much as they do, they should have to pay for it. no one is saying "no cars;" but i am saying, "make better choices and get used to the fact that our gas is criminally low and is pretty much reponsible for all the main problems in the US: pollution, obesity, and entanglements and deals with nasty foreign governments."

But not everyone lives in a place where public transportation is the answer!! And don't forget that for a large number of Americans in this large and spread out country, their commute is not something you can bike or walk to. What, you gonna bike up the interstate for 50 miles? Gonna walk 35 miles, better get going at 4 am and hope the weather is nice What about shopping, how are you going to carry all your stuff home? I think a lot of inner city Americans and some Europeans cannot comprehend how a large part of our country is spread out, not close to business, and dependant on cars.

Bus and train lines simply won't work in most of the country. In many many places, the population is just too sparse to ever even consider it.I live in an area of 1,000,000 (several cities combined) and the busses only run down certain places. All attempts at light rail have been rejected since there is basically no place to put it in the congestion of an old, built up area. Carpool? Not everyone can find someone to ride with! My husband looked into rideshare and found no one going his way at his time. Also, people have come to value their independance and privacy.

Besides these reasons why it won't work for most of America, the thing that's pissing me off is that this is not the point! Don't give in and stop buying gas, we need to fight and let them know we won't accept it and that they should release the emergency stores or they will keep gouging us!

A few more comments: Melon, I won't be voting democratic, I don't believe for a second they're any better. Until a viable third party, or lack of party candidate emerges, we're fucked.

And please don't keep bashing SUV owners! I don't own one myself, I have a small Chevy and gas is killing me. But when they bought those things gas was cheaper. Our government is failing us, don't let it happen. Don't just give in and say oh well start walking. If you don't pay, someone else will. Americans love their cars (and as I've pointed out it's NECESSARY for a majority of our population!)

And one more thing, the gas tax. I HATE it when 'tax' comes up the answer to everything, (which is the main reason I strongly dislike the dems) All that money just goes into a pile and gets wasted, it will never go to where it's intended. If there is money it will be spent and it's coming out of all our pockets. There is already about a fucking 60 cent a gallon tax already and I still see potholes. Wake up!

 

[Flying FuManchu]

petition your local goverments for better mass transit options. if the demand were there, if people were forced to find options behind their cars, they'd certainly find a way. most of the reason for urban sprawl is the omnipresence of the automobile. i also see nothing wrong with a little pressure to get people to find alternative means of transportation via a tax, or even to start carpooling or drive more fuel efficient cars.

LOL as if its that simple. The city government is pathetic and is operating under a budget deficit with cuts forthcoming. We're talking about a city that could not get air conditioning installed for Memphis public schools for over a decade resulting in kids going home early from school b/c it was too freakin hot in the spring.

I'm just griping. Retail wise... wholesalers and retailers are very much affected though. I'm actually griping about that more then paying at the pump for my car... however I still bitch and moan when I fill up.

 

[fah]

99.9 cents a litre (Canadian cents )

I think that works out to almost $3.78 a gallon

 

[Popmartijn]

Re: !

And please don't keep bashing SUV owners! I don't own one myself, I have a small Chevy and gas is killing me. But when they bought those things gas was cheaper. Our government is failing us, don't let it happen. Don't just give in and say oh well start walking. If you don't pay, someone else will. Americans love their cars (and as I've pointed out it's NECESSARY for a majority of our population!)

SUV owners might have bought those when gas was cheaper, but those vehicles were also gas guzzlers then. So they knew they were putting an increased demand on oil, depleting the resources even faster. And they could also foresee that when gas prices rise, the costs of SUVs also rise fast.
Increased gas prices (and a gas tax) may force people to finally think about how inefficient those cars are and how they can save on gas.

*tries to calculate what the gas price is here*
From memory, 1 gallon is about 4 liter. The price of regular gas here is 1.325 euro/liter so that's ~ 5.3 euro/gallon. Convert that to US dollars and you have 6.84 dollar/gallon.

So what are some complaining about?

 

[indra]

I just think that the rate of SUV ownership in the US points out just how pathetically small the average US male's penis really is.

Now THAT'S something to get hot and bothered about!

 

[Vorsprung]

^
I own a Fiat Panda (the original)

 

[indra]

^
I own a Fiat Panda (the original)

Ohhh! No insecurity there!

 

[A_Wanderer]

So don't tell people to stop using cars, force them to by taxation .

 

[wizard2c]

reply

This is scary. The price of everything has gone up seemingly 10-20% in the last 10 years, yet the minimum wage remains constant at $5.15 per hour.

Hi!

What? You can't make ends meet?

This is where you need to think outside of the box.........

carol
wizard2c

 

[Danospano]

Okay, earlier I mentioned that the minimum wage hasn't gone up in 10 years...okay, so I meant in 7 years. There, it hasn't gone up in 7 years...and I said it hadn't gone up in 10 years. Now, that I've addressed how off I was, let me continue.

Americans are going to be screwed within the next 10 years. Screwed in the bad, Cagliga sense of the term; not in the Paris Hilton home video porn sense. We have built our cities too far apart, too far away from major water sources, and too far the main streets and downtowns that used to inhabit the vast majority of our population. This means that all those suburbs, all those giant expressways, and all those country villas will go to waste. Sadly, I feel bad for those who depend on such things. Why? Because I'm one of them, and it's going to hurt my lifestyle as well.

What we need a massive public transportation system and a plan to build everything within reason, along these lines. If we can form these plans, and run these giant transit systems with solar power sources, it's my belief that life will go on rather similarly to it's current form.

 

[bammo2]

Here in the UK I pay 83.9 pence per litre. I understand that there is 3.785 litres to the US gallon, which means I pay £3.18 for a US gallon

that works out at US$5.97490 per gallon

so it really confuses me when americans say that their petrol is expensive. Personally I think it should be a damn sight MORE expensive. Maybe then there woudl be some more pavements built and people might start walking to the shops

Obviously there are a lot of people who physically need their cars to get to places, and I'm not disputing that. But I couldn't believe how much people used their cars when I spent a month in the states. In a lot of the places I went, it was physically impossible to walk from one shop to the other. and as for crossing the road as a pedestrian.....

 

[Aardvark747]

Here in the UK I pay 83.9 pence per litre.

Ditto

 

[Irvine511]

So don't tell people to stop using cars, force them to by taxation .

and we can combine this taxation, with tax incentives to make "greener" decisions -- like tax breaks for the purchase of a Prius or some car that gets 60+ miles to the gallon.



i'm sorry, i simply remain unsympathetic to those who have to drive a lot and pay a lot at the pump. everyone else in the world pays more than you (my fellow Americans, i'm looking in your direction), and you've made the decision to live where you live. so, therefore, when you budget out your monthly expenses, i'm sure gas takes a greater chunk of change than it used to, and while i'm sure that's inconvenient, it's really only a problem because it is a tax you actually see as opposed to the taxes you don't see. hopefully, this will get us all to think better about how much gas and oil we consume, and make better decisions.

something's gotta give.

 

[pax]

and you've made the decision to live where you live.

Irvine, I agree with just about everything you've said (as an American who's looking blissfully forward to the day she can sell her car), but this one small point is a bit off the mark. It's one thing to say that when, say, apartments are available in the city and one flees to the sterile McSuburbs...that does bug me. But many, many people work in major industrial/commercial areas with no housing physically nearby. They have to live some amount of driving distance from their jobs because we've gotten so fussy about where we can have housing and where we can have industry. There are several areas like this near where I live.

Improved public transport could take care of this problem, but that is a dream for almost anyone living outside a major urban area. In the town in which I grew up, the buses stopped running at 6 p.m. 6 p.m.! So good luck going shopping if you don't have a car and if you, like most people, work all day.

 

[u2bonogirl]

I remember when the gas prices started going up and people had a total shit fit.
They said that if prices kept going up they were going to stop driving I would have but I lived 20 minutes driving distance from any sort of civilization and it just wasnt practical, plus my significant other lived 45 minutes away from me.
My point is that when I was listening to the radio this morning somebody was talking about how since the prices went up the consumption of gas has gone down ZERO. Americans are using no less than they were before.
Now that I live in the suburbs I walk to work, and ride with my fiance. When I get a car it will be a small one that gets good gas mileage and I will only use it when I need to, but sometimes you NEED to use the car. Simple.
When I lived out in the country there were people that were getting stranded out in their homes because they couldnt afford to fill up their tank anymore. These were people driving ford escorts and the like.
Its impractical to expect public transportation to reach to the very edges of civilization everywhere. Its never going to happen.
I really have no answer to this problem other than to push vehicles that use less.
On the minimum wage note, in oregon where I used to live minimum wage was $6.90 and going up

 

[U2Kitten]

Originally posted by Irvine511


and you've made the decision to live where you live.

Right, and what is everyone supposed to do now? Make a mad dash for the ghetto so they can live on the fucking bus line? You still don't get it. Have you never been out of the DC area? I have lived in the suburbs all my life, and have traveled extensively in the US, and you just don't understand that most people live in outlying areas, are many miles from cities, or even in some cases way way out in rural areas. It is ridiculous and unrealistic to move every single one of these people who number in the tens of millions to the city and abandon everything else! Please get real!

It's also outrageous to think taxes are going to work, they are never going to work because of gov't mismanagement and waste (under any regime!) and even if they did work it would take many years and people have to live NOW! Taxes? Forcing companies to make small cars? You scare me. Big gov't is NOT the answer, it's always been the problem in this country!

 

[U2Kitten]

Oh and if you're so sure the gov't should do something, how about releasing those emergency stores of fuel!

and if you must legislate something, how about sponsoring some US based refineries and other things in the industry, or setting limits on price gouging! No, I'm still not for big gov't but there are better things the gov't could do to help than take more of our money

 

[pax]

Right, and what is everyone supposed to do now? Make a mad dash for the ghetto so they can live on the fucking bus line? You still don't get it. Have you never been out of the DC area? I have lived in the suburbs all my life, and have traveled extensively in the US, and you just don't understand that most people live in outlying areas, are many miles from cities, or even in some cases way way out in rural areas. It is ridiculous and unrealistic to move every single one of these people who number in the tens of millions to the city and abandon everything else! Please get real!

U2Kitten, that reply might have been a bit harsh. Remember we're debating ideas, not people.

 

[bammo2]

what bugs me the most about all of this is that people seem to be forgetting that the supplies of oil are very much finite. The quicker we slow down consumption, the longer those supplies will last.

I have no doubt that future generations will be gobsmacked at the wasteful habits of today

 

[u2bonogirl]

were getting gobsmacked right now

 

[bammo2]

 

[Irvine511]

Right, and what is everyone supposed to do now? Make a mad dash for the ghetto so they can live on the fucking bus line? You still don't get it. Have you never been out of the DC area? I have lived in the suburbs all my life, and have traveled extensively in the US, and you just don't understand that most people live in outlying areas, are many miles from cities, or even in some cases way way out in rural areas. It is ridiculous and unrealistic to move every single one of these people who number in the tens of millions to the city and abandon everything else! Please get real!

It's also outrageous to think taxes are going to work, they are never going to work because of gov't mismanagement and waste (under any regime!) and even if they did work it would take many years and people have to live NOW! Taxes? Forcing companies to make small cars? You scare me. Big gov't is NOT the answer, it's always been the problem in this country!

i grew up in the suburbs, went to college in the sticks, and now live in a major city. i've also lived in Europe. i'm still not sympathetic.

your post is too over-emotional to really respond to. i'm not saying that no one should drive, i am saying that there is a higher cost to driving, and that the money has to come from somewhere. i'm not sympathetic to those that live in the new exurbs, outside of the suburbs, because, again, most people who choose to live there do so for cheaper property so they can have bigger houses (which they then must heat in the winter).

the rest of your post is too inane to respond to, and way too personal. you seem to have no idea that the roads you drive on come from taxes to begin with.

i'm glad i scare you.

 

[U2Kitten]

Please, of course I know roads come from taxes! But more big gov't is not the answer. Besides, by the time the gov't pays for all these new roads, new cars, new sidewalks, etc., they could have just subsidized gas prices and lowered them!

I still think the answer is releasing the emergency stores, just temporarily, and I believe if people are too complacent they'll think we don't care and continue to shit all over us. We have to let them know we won't take it.

Irvine, I am sorry to see you are still not sympathetic to the tens of millions of Americans for whom your plans are unrealistic, unattainable, and far fetched.

and you wouldn't be so glad to know you 'scare' me if you knew that you 'scare' me in the same way Bush and the religious right 'scare' you. It's not cool.

 

[pax]

Well, okay, Irvine, but I did make some of the same points.

What did you think of my post?

And remember...ideas...not people...