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Old 12-13-2003, 01:10 PM   #1
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FYM Thoughts (Do not want to Derail Canada Thread)

Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis
a) Thanks, it was my intention

b) Why does everything have to be 100% or 0%? All the way or no way? There is a middle ground you know...
Have you ever thought of responding to something you believe to be incorrect, and using restraint to stay on topic, keeping your tangent limited to one reply? For instance, in another thread (about Reagan) I had mentioned about the US giving weapons to IRAQ (with Reagans involvement), and you pursued the tangent within that thread. Notice... I never replied to your questions following my post on that tangent. I used restraint in an attempt to keep the thread on topic. Now... if you really wish to continue the tangent, why not start a new thread? I mean, that's what threads are for

c) I wasn't specifically talking about one person, but a frequent group of posters here in FYM. It is not my intention to single anyone out, except Diamond of course which has been previously put on hiatus from FYM for the same antics, over and over and over and over and over and over and over... you get my point.


And as far as what Angela just posted.... she's right: It's posts/comments like Diamonds that make others in the world find Americans to be terribly ignorant, closed minded, and egotistical.

Heck, I'm American and I'm disgusted by how ignorant our general populace is.

P.S. I'm also disgusted by how ignorant the planet's general populace is.
Elvis thanks again for responding.......

Maybe that should be the strategy from now on...start a thread...with a cut and paste.

a) good

b) I noticed you did not respond...However, you brought up a point in that thread, it was relevant, and did not respond. It is funny you ask, why not start another thread to get an answer to my question? Elvis, I did....it is in the WAR area of FYM I got tired of waiting for an answer. I also think WAR needs to be retired. and remerged with FYM. However, I still believe that the weapons were related to Reagan and the topic of the thread, but I understand your point and will do better to show restraint.

To the members of the forum, if I in some way have been derailing your threads, I apologize. I enjoy the debates. I enjoy the research. I spend a lot of time reading books and looking for articles to back up any of the thoughts that I present here in the forum.

c) I agree with your comment about restraint, however there is little restraint shown in comments towards USA. As for singling out Diamond, I have seen him in threads get bashed for typing things, that I have typed, yet people did not say boo to me. While he has typed them in less detail or even by using a picture or by using shall we say a more veiled response, there is usually more meaning behind what he has put into his post than what people have given him credit for. Other times I feel his sense of humor may not sit well with others, but that does not mean he intentionally set out to maliciously hurt anyone in the forum any more than the people who post unresearched and anti-US slogans. If we are going to have a balanced forum, there needs to be a balance on both sides.

Which brings me back to restraint......There are comments made about the United States in this forum all the time and it is a given that no matter what form they take, they are acceptable (Many Members Have Left because of this).

The one thing that I enjoy about coming here are there are MANY, many people who come here (Klaus, Verte) and post well thought out and researched critiques backed up with detailed information. This is worthy of discussion, and debate. I can accept the fact that Klaus may come into the forum and present a case that the US did something wrong because Klaus is going to provide the forum with something factual from a credible source to back up what he says. I love it....Bonoman, you rocked this week along with Anitram....it was awesome. Arun kicked my rear-end all over the planet one Sunday in this forum. I respect them because they produce quality information even if it is critical of the USA.

Then there are the other posts......and I am not getting into names.....that trash my country.....and what may be my Christian beliefs.....and it is acceptable.

But Diamond is singled out. yes, I like the guy...he was the first person to welcome me to the forum, but there needs to be "balance in the force" if I may.


That's my 2 cents. I hate talking about this publicly.

You are correct there is waaaayyyy too much ignorance...and I enjoy coming here. I have learned many things that I would not have bothered to read if I had not started to come in here. I would not have communicated with people like NB Melon ect...I could go on....

now I am rambling....sorry if I am not making sense
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Old 12-13-2003, 01:27 PM   #2
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Well, I just skimmed a bit of that thread, and all I'd like to add is that I agree w/ your point Dreadsox about Christian beliefs being allowed to be "trashed" here. I've seen it several times w/ no response from a moderator (at least not on the board, perhaps it is done in private). I respect the religions and beliefs of everyone here, all I ask is that you respect mine. Obviously there can be intelligent discourse about religion, but that is not what I'm talking about.

And I'd hardly begin to make blanket statements about Americans based upon the posts of a select few on message boards. That seems silly and unfair to me.

And if people want to trash me because I'm American or trash my country, there's not much I can do about that I suppose if that's going to be allowed here. But maybe people could take a step back and get to know people as individuals. Like you said, there is a difference between quality critical information and blanket ignorant generalizations.
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Old 12-13-2003, 01:43 PM   #3
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I want to say something too....I have also made and IGNORANT statement or two in here as well. Not intentionally. We all slip up, and through the gracious nature of the people in here, people have been kind to let me get back up, and I have tried to do the same to them.
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Old 12-13-2003, 02:04 PM   #4
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I think sometimes it's hard to define 'derailing a thread' because threads have a way of naturally evolving from the starting topic. And sometimes the tangents are just as interesting debating points too. Don't get me wrong, there is no sense in making every thread about the war or GWB or left vs. right, and I do think a number have been derailed, but I also don't think you can rigidly keep to only the exact topic initially presented. Does that make any sense? I don't think I'm explaining myself very well.

Dread, you know I like you, but diamond has really been out of line this week. He has derailed a number of threads with nothing but insults, ranging from "Dean is a retard" to "other than great strip bars and sexy mooses..and an occassional tribute band.. what IS CANADA really good for..?" to "Canada hides behind Queen Elizabeth's skirt" to "the bottom line is= Canadians are weak and Americans have better organisms.. " to "Canada has nice ppl sure but Canada is has such a large void of intelleual stimuli" to "Canada reminds me of a beauitifully large,dependent dysfunctional child."

Now please point out to me which of these were relevant to the subject matter of our new Prime Minister, or the talk of Canadian contributions in Afghanistan or the bidding on contracts? I'm sorry, but these all derailed threads unnecessarily and some were incredibly nonsensical and insulting. Not to mention I haven't even posted ALL of his comments of the past few days.

To me, basically, the above comments are good examples of derailing a thread. Going off on related tangents, that's maybe not so much derailing a thread. Therein lies the difference.
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Old 12-13-2003, 02:36 PM   #5
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I did not start this to debate Diamond....

After 3,000+ posts I think it would be wrong to do that to a member.

I have been in two threads now, where I feel I have been asked to shut it down by Elvis, once in a thread that I started...LOL

Anyway....I have concerns......I respect you, and I understand you are concerned as well.
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Old 12-13-2003, 02:44 PM   #6
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Regarding the topic of threads being "derailed," I have to concur in whole with Col. Dreadsox (Retired).

I am of the opinion that no one should restrain from challenging something in a thread which they believe to be inaccurate. Elvis, if you are going to post something about Reagan or members of the Reagan administration selling or giving weapons to Iraq in a thead about Reagan, Dreadsox should have the opportunity to respond to that topic in that thread without having to go to the "War Room" forum or post a new thread elsewhere. Even Verte76 offered a third party explanation of this phenomenon, and she was told her reply had nothing to do with the thread topic! I realize you are the administrator/owner of this entire site and I love it and appreciate everything you do, and I suspect someone will call me paranoid so I might as well go ahead and allege a "gargantuan left wing conspiracy" to save everyone the trouble, but whe you refer to "a frequent group of posters here in FYM," tell me, are you talking about Dreadsox, Diamond, Sting2, and the rest of us who are too stubborn to change our political and world views and will therefore will counter liberal opinions with evidence from our sources? If that is the case and this is to be only a place of pro-liberal discussion then I can respect that rule and I will leave, but "Free Your Mind" has broader meaning than that to me. I try to turn the other cheek where it is appropriate in life, but what is the point of debating and discussing "Free Your Mind" topics if we are to turn the other cheeek (or go to the inconvenience of starting another thread in another forum) every time we see something we disagree with and have the information to challenge?

And yes, I have had my own glorious interference timeline with Diamond, but his provacative personality is no worse than some on the left, although I wilal never tell any of you who those people on the left are in my opinion.

And with all of that, I wish everyone the happiest of winter holidays and joy as we observe our seasons of joy, beginnings, perseverance and egg nog.

~U2Alabama
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Old 12-13-2003, 05:14 PM   #7
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Some good points are being made here. I am sorry that thoughtful, intelligent conservatives don't feel welcome here. That's not cool. Some complex political notions don't neatly fit into "liberal" or "conservative" political orthodoxies. A good example is feminists and feminism in Moslem countries. Feminists in Moslem countries were vehemently opposed to the Taliban, and have been opposed to the extremist vein of Islam because it's virulently anti-woman. For this reason some of these Moslems supported the strike against Afghanistan. They are liberal Moslems; the strike was launched by a conservative Republican Administration. This scenario doesn't fit into a box. Is terrorism something that only conservatives oppose? Certainly not. We all oppose terrorism. We don't agree on the particulars in the war on terrorism, but we all want to stop this disease. Is human rights for women something only liberals support? Of course not. I have heard President Bush say that a society shouldn't throw all of its female talent away. He introduced a feminist from Afghanistan at a State of the Union speech. If this is to be truly "Free Your Mind" we'll pitch these boxes and just say what we think, labels be damned.
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Old 12-14-2003, 08:27 AM   #8
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I just wanted to add that I commented about the use of the word "retard" and how offended I was by it, apparently to no avail

I also recall a thread where someone once posted, at the start of the war, that Americans here would be "cheering" at the deaths of Iraqis. Sorry, I don't recall the details, and even if I could find it, I would have absolutely no desire to revisit it again I was deeply offended by that statement. In NO WAY am I justifying the statements of anyone else by posting about that particular statement, but where was the outrage over that?

I agree w/ Verte - while I may not always agree w/ them, there are quite a few intelligent, thoughtful conservatives here who should feel welcome always.
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Old 12-14-2003, 08:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
where someone once posted, at the start of the war, that Americans here would be "cheering" at the deaths of Iraqis.
I recall ONE extremely RUDE person who showed their face at the start of the the war...that continued to post extremely disgusting things. I do not consider them a CONSERVATIVE. Any person who would TYPE that has never put on a UNIFORM, never had a bullet shot over their head, or had a stick of dynamite blown up anywhere near their body.

There are many on all sides of all issues who are respectful in here. Spending my entire life surrounded by 8-9 year olds it is a wonderful place to come exercise my mind.

I understand the use of the word "retard" having many life skills children in my building, 20 autistic children in my building, and a few children with assbergers...and me...the teacher who can't spell and speak would be offensive. It is not a word that is used anymore.
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Old 12-14-2003, 11:43 AM   #10
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I have Asperger's Syndrome. The art studio where we all sold our pictures last week is a collective of 25 adult autistics (Asperger's is a form of autism) who are artists. We tend to think in visual ways; we don't quite look at the world the way others do. We have a *fantastic* artist who you really can't communicate with. But, she sold many pieces of her art at the show--including some cards my mother bought. It's amazing stuff. This is why I'm offended by the use of the word "retard". Let's retire that one, OK? I don't think anyone meant any real harm they just didn't think about the impact of the use of the word.
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Old 12-14-2003, 12:10 PM   #11
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I've hardly been posting in FYM lately but I just felt compelled to add a response to this thread. It seems like lately every thread is dragged off subject, whether it's by someone posting irrelevant pictures or making derogatory comments about anyone who disagrees with them. I rarely post anymore because I don't see the point in writing a coherent response only to receive a reply consisting of either another picture of George Bush or a brief comment with no apparent connection to the subject in question.

I would love to see FYM as a place where people could have serious political discussions, exchange ideas and learn from one another. It's sad that every thread seems to descend into liberal/conservative name-calling or yet another discussion on the merits (or lack of merits) of the Bush administration. If only we could all accept one another's opinions and stop seeing every thread as another opportunity to score political points.

*Fizz, who will now return to lurking.
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
I understand the use of the word "retard" having many life skills children in my building, 20 autistic children in my building, and a few children with assbergers...and me...the teacher who can't spell and speak would be offensive. It is not a word that is used anymore.
Working with Special Olympics , I would appreciate too the discontinued use of the word "retard" .
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Old 12-14-2003, 05:28 PM   #13
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Let me say that in no context do I approve of the use of the word "retard." I recall an incident several years ago where a particularly hateful, mischievous and homophobic poster (Gen-tree?) used the word retard and everyone in FYM, myself included, came down on him for it and I didn't realize the word was still being used in here. Diamond, if you used that word, you should apologize; it is inappropriate, not funny, and it sure as hell isn't going to help you get your argument across.

~U2Alabama
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Old 12-15-2003, 04:43 AM   #14
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Dread, you know I like you, but diamond has really been out of line this week. He has derailed a number of threads with nothing but insults, ranging from "Dean is a retard" to "other than great strip bars and sexy mooses..and an occassional tribute band.. what IS CANADA really good for..?" to "Canada hides behind Queen Elizabeth's skirt" to "the bottom line is= Canadians are weak and Americans have better organisms.. " to "Canada has nice ppl sure but Canada is has such a large void of intelleual stimuli" to "Canada reminds me of a beauitifully large,dependent dysfunctional child."

Anitram-

I know youre smart enough to recognize tounge in cheek comments.

Re the term "retard"..
I understand Austism and mental retardartaion to be 2 solely entirely different things.
I did a 15 minute presentation on Austism in my sophmore year in high school Biology class and got an "A".
I understand the sensitivity of using the term casually.
I never labeled anybody here in the forum as a 'retard'..

I slipped and called Gov Howard Dean a retard in a heated moment inwhich I will refrain from doing so in the future.

Sorry if I offended anybody here by using that particular term casually.
Im sorry about Howard Dean being the Democrats best hope..

DB9
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Old 12-15-2003, 07:21 AM   #15
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Diamond every time this kind of thing comes up you say it is tongue in cheek. I'm not going to argue you that it is not as I wouldn't really know, but surely you have come to learn that certain things should never be said in the first place? You might not mean any harm at all but not everyone is going to know that. There also seems to be the whipping boy syndrome in here. The Conservatives are largely outnumbered so whatever members of this small camp say stick out like a proverbial sore thumb. On the polar opposite side of this fact is the vast sea of liberals who have offensive comments slip through. It is sometimes hard to see though, it is swallowed up amongst the majority of similarly but mostly well written replies. So there's people getting offended and slighted all over the place. From both sides. Sometimes eyebrows are raised at moderators - why dont we pick this up or act on it? Sometimes we do but it is dealt with off the forums, sometimes it is dealt with publicly, sometimes we miss it. It is hoped with a group of mods that most things will be read and all that is wrong and unfair is picked up. It doesn't always happen though. Raise it if it is missed. We are here for that. Before this though, it is always the responsibility of everyone here to mind what is said and how it is exactly presented. We all are in control of what we say in here, not the mods as editors or as a screening mechanism.
As for derailing, I dont really have a problem with it as it is a natural course of conversation. Even in real life conversations the topic shifts and moves on. If 2 or more topics emerge from the one thread, create a new one to focus on it...Until it too is derailed lol...If we try to follow basic common curtesy and the general forum guidelines, it shouldn't be that bad.
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