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Old 07-23-2006, 02:55 AM   #1
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FYM BIG issues - your stance?

I am interested in knowing where people who frequent FYM sit on the big issues that get "discussed" (and then locked!) here all the time. I want to know if there are general groups such as religious people all think this, or liberals all think this or if we all share some common thoughts but are all unique in our whole views.
I think it would be good to know where people stand on particular issues, this way 1. when issues are brought up, we can observe each others position and 2. Maybe we can see other people who have things in common with us?

Also people always seem to say 'FYM is always so liberal anti bush' yet I find a lot of bush supporters and vice versa, so i think it would be interesting to get a "real" picture of FYMers.

I really don't want this thread to turn into arguments about both sides of the BIG ISSUES and then get locked like my last one , but more a way to express your opinions on the big issues of today, and FYM.

So to me, the issues are

* Iraq War
* Religion (those that have those that don't)
* Abortion
* Stem Cell Research
* Gay Marriage/Rights
* Death Penalty
* Gun Control
* Israel conflict
* Political Views

I'm not ashamed of my views, and I do feel very strongly about them (as im sure everyone does) but I also like to see other peoples opinions and their reasons why they believe what they do!

Iraq War

I'm against it, was against it from the start, have marched in protests in my city and attended a few forums on it. I think it caused a lot more problems then solving any, and when I read the casulty reports i truly believed all those people have died in vain stuck in a war that was not needed. It also pisses me off that people are STILL making the tie between Iraq and 9/11!

Religion

I'm atheist/agonostic, and always have been. I enjoy learning about other religions but do find them very judgemental, closeminded and definately not for me. I love that i'm not religious and truthfully don't really understand how people can be.

Abortion

I'm pro choice, and think the decision should rest with the parents of the baby and no one else. I think there are enough orphans and foster kids in the world, that bringing in children because you can't safely have an abortion is a completely silly thing to do. Sometimes even with protection, you can get pregnant and even with the whole 'you can give it up for adoption' you will think about that baby for ever. Its a scary point in someone's life, but i dont think anyone else has a right to tell the mother what to do. I agree that late term abortions shouldn't happen, but my stance is, if the baby can't live without the mothers help (i dont mean breatfeeding or warmth as they can be done by someone else) then it is not a "living sentient being" and therefore its not murder, so that argument doesn't work for me.

Stem Cell Research

I think its very important, and could lead up to cures we've only ever dreamt about. I also think the arguments against stem cell research are baseless.

Gay Marriage/Rights

I believe everyone is entitled to the same rights and don't understand why people are so against gay marriage. Wth the divorce rate the way it is and stupid people getting married on a whim and then anulling it the arguments of 'gay people making marriage worthless, or not taking it seriously' are baseless as that is what marriage basically is now. I believe two men and two women can be hopelessly and devotedly in love with each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together, so why are they not entitled to have a legal union that will bind them as well as protect them in the long run with divorce or death of a partner.

Death Penalty

I don't believe in it, and don't think anyone has a right to take another person's life into their own hands. Obviously this includes murder, and I believe that people who murder should be imprisoned for life, but I still think that 1. The legal system is not as impartial and fair as it could be and innocent people have been put to death in the past 2. Killing someone for them killing someone seems like a tit for tat measure and not what a truly first world advanced country should accept. 3. I don't think its as good as punishment then life imprisonment. They will never be free, never have the same liberties as other people, but will have to live their life out behind bars for the rest of them life. Makes more sense to me. And the argument about cost of keeping them in jail is moot because if we didn't pay taxes for jail we'd be paying them somewhere else.

Gun Control
I think carrying weapons should be illegal. This goes back to my firm belief that no one should have the right to take someone elses life. I do agree that policemen should carry a gun, but should be taught to 'shoot to injure' instead of 'shoot to kill' as last years "london bomber" shows that ther eis no going back after you accidently kill someone. I live in a country where it is against the law to own a gun (unless you're a farmer and then you can only use it on your land) Of course there are illegal ones and people do get shot here, but on the whole i think it works a lot better then countries who do 'have the right to bear arms' I think its such a stupid thing, to put a gun in an amatuers hands because its such a lethal weapon, and judging by the amount of accidental deaths in the us every year from gun shots, i think it is a really perniant issue to think about. You don't need a gun to protect yourself, there are other ways.

Israel Conflict

I don't agree with what happened after WW2 but another two generations have come and gone since the Israelis settled in the area so I don't believe in moving them all out. I think its was a silly desicion to move them back ther ein the first place and feel so much uneccessary bloodshed on both sides of the conflict has happened because of it. Now i don't know what the answer is. There is just so much hatred and anger and resentment and arrogance between both sides that is hard to get a clear view and really "support" one side or the other. I am quite *shrug* with what to do, and like reading about peoples opinions in relation to helping out this conflict.

Political Views

In my country, both sides are the same, there really is no where I want to alin myself in. With my views on american politics, I am not knowledgable enough and therefore a lot of things confuse me (such as not having a "shadow" president on the opposing side like we have a shadow prime minister and head of the other party) and the like. But I definately do not agree with 99% of the decisions the Bush administration has made, so i guess this makes me NOT a conservative! haha


Well there you go, my rather long winded opinions. I really am interested in hearing from other people! Don't be shy! And remember this is peoples PERSONAL opinions and people shouldn't get attacked over that!
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:15 AM   #2
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* Iraq War

Don't agree with it, but we're there now we have to finish, unfortunately at the cost of many soldiers.

* Religion (those that have those that don't)

I have to admit being in FYM has pushed me more and more away from organized religion.

* Abortion

I'm pro-choice

* Stem Cell Research

I'm for finding cures and saving lives.

* Gay Marriage/Rights

Love should be recognized everywhere.

* Death Penalty

Where does it get us, no one has ever shown me. I believe in 'though shall not kill".

* Gun Control

The percentage of people who have "protected" themselves with a gun is so small they can't even calculate it.

* Israel conflict

I admit this is an issue I'm not the most educated on, but from what I see; both sides have major issues to deal with.

* Political Views

Well this is a pretty broad question. I don't believe in absolutes or pinning down beliefs, there's a lot of hypocricy in all political views.
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:30 AM   #3
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Interesting idea, dazzlingamy. At first I thought it a little redundant, but now I see what you were thinking. This could be an useful "reference" sheet when debating with other posters. It sounds like the basic idea, is not to respond to others individual beliefs on this thread, but to simply say what ours our.

So here's mine:

Iraq War--I was against from the very beginning. I still think it was a mistake. However, I feel that now that we are there we cannot just leave. Right now, we're in half-assed, and that needs to change. I think we need to send more troops, not less. As a country, we need to support cleaning up the mess that we've made there.

Religion--I'm what I suppose you'd call a fairly religious person from a conservative Christian denomination. However I'd have to acknowledge that religion, in general, is pretty much a mess. I am deeply disturbed by the increasingly politicized nature of evangelical Christianity in the United States and I am vigorous supporter of a strict seperation of church and state.

Abortion--On a personal level, I believe that abortion is wrong, much in the same way that war is wrong. Both are wrong but SOMETIMES necessary. And like war, abortion should be entered into solemnly with the full realization of the costs to all involved. Because of that, I don't support an outright ban on abortions, nor do I support taking away all restraints. I believe the debate about abortion today is far too polarized for there to be much meaningful discussion. When one side paints the other as "pro-death" and the other side pains their opponent as "anti-choice" it's not a good sign.

Stem Cell Research--So far I haven't seeing any convincing arguments against it, so I support it. Most arguments seem to focus on whether the feds should fund it, but I think this is dodging the issue.

Gay Marriage/Rights--Gays should have access to the same rights and privelages as anyone else, including a marriage recognized by the state. Churches, on the other hand, should not be bound to marry people if such marriages go against their doctrines.

Death Penalty--I've gone back and forth on this issue. I probably lean more towards opposing it right now, though again my views on the taking of human life in other circumstances (warfare, abortion) leave me open to the possibility of it being acceptable in some circumstances. Basically, I think that we need to do all we can to avoid taking human life under any circumstances because the costs to the people involved in the taking life (not to mention the person being killed of course) are astronomically high.

Gun Control--My support of strict gun control laws comes from my considerable experience with guns as a teenager. Most of my male friends had considerable arsenals in their posssession. As a result, I've shot just about every gun legally available including civilian versions of the AK-47 and M-16. The turning point for me was one of my closest friends came with seconds of shooting a bunch of people at a party who he thought had hurt his girlfriend at drunken party. Right then and there, Americans just do not need the kind of access so many of us think we do to guns. In Saipan, civilians are not allowed to own handguns, and deaths by gunfire are virtually unheard of. With a gun it's too easy for irreversible things to happen.

Israel Conflict--I think the situation is complicated. I suspect Israel acts with impunity when it feels it needs to be because it knows that the most powerful nation in the world, will never do anything more than talk sternly and wring it's hands. Israel can do whatever the hell it wants and know it. I do think the Palestinians and those who support them have to accept that they will NEVER beat Israel using violence, and radical Arabs who want to see Israel erased need to get over it. It's not gonna happen.

Political Views--I don't think of myself as liberal--I'm sufficiently vain that I think that I'm above mere political pigeonholing--but I think that most of my views put me in that category.
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:49 AM   #4
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I'm not going to say very much or I'll go on a rant. These just aren't the issues that get me fired up.

Iraq War-I really am not a fan of invading other countries. I believe the administration wanted to go in. As an American, I don't care if the country fails into civil war; I just want the troops home.

Religion- I am an atheist. I hate religion because it is the opposite of faith. I respect all faiths but I find that they cannot exist as a group event. Faith is good but mass religion is bad.

Abortion- I don't have an opinion on the issue. People find that odd. I just don't have one.

Stem Cell Research- If it can help people in the future, go for it.

Gay Marriage/Rights- I liken the plight of the gay community to African Americans in the civil rights movement. Must we let the government rule from a few people's views. Or perhaps the can rule from the constitution.

Death Penalty- I don't have an opinion on this issue either, sorry.

Gun Control- Really, do guns that fire more than two shots a second belong on the streets.

Isreal Conflict- You can't kill the cancer by killing the patient!

Political Views- A democrat though I'm not a fan of either party.
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:58 AM   #5
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* Iraq War
Too late. It's too late for what anyone says or does to matter.

* Religion (those that have those that don't)
I don't understand the question. Do I have religion? Perhaps, perhaps not. I believe, after a lapsed-catholic fashion.

* Abortion
Pro-choice. Not, 'pro-abortion'.

* Stem Cell Research
It's occuring anyway, all the public huffing and puffing is about government funding of it, NOT about letting it continue to go on. Which it does. Interesting.

* Gay Marriage/Rights
Yes.

* Death Penalty
Absolutely 100% opposed.

* Gun Control
No opinion in so far as it's entirely a US issue. But I won't live in a country without it.

* Israel conflict
Israel has a right to defend itself, but this time it has gone way too far. Way too far. Can a nation this wealthy and developed not get at its non-state enemies via covert means?

* Political Views
I'm a communist.
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Old 07-23-2006, 09:12 AM   #6
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* Iraq War
Support; but with the caveat of recognising mistakes made in the past and the importance of either commiting to win decisively or crafting an alternative policy.

* Religion (those that have those that don't)
Atheist and philisophically anti-theist.

* Abortion
Why not.

* Stem Cell Research
Overhyped but still support

* Gay Marriage/Rights
Support gay marriage and equal treatment for all people, opposed to hate crime legislation.

* Death Penalty
Opposed to it for criminals

* Gun Control
Right to gun ownership and the right to self defence should be a fundamental human right, if given the choice I wouldn't excercise it unless my situation neccessitated it.

* Israel conflict
Illustrates just how effective terrorism is at manipulating the international community.

* Political Views
Maximum personal freedoms for everybody to excercise as they see fiit.

*Free Speech
Unlimited in the ideal up to and including hate speech on the basis of religion, race, gender and sexuality - the vile minority may dwell at the margins but it protects the majority overall.
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Old 07-23-2006, 09:18 AM   #7
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* Iraq War
Was against it before we even went in, but an immediate pull out would only make the region even more unstable. Unfortunately we're stuck.

* Religion (those that have those that don't)
I'm a preachers kid who's very active in church, but I don't consider myself religious...I'm too aware of the dirty politics that go on within the church to be a religious person. However I do consider myself more spiritual.

* Abortion
Pro-choice.

* Stem Cell Research
So many hopeful possibilities...to not allow this research is to deny the hopes of millions of people and their families.

* Gay Marriage/Rights
100% for equality for gays. They should not be denied rights based on their homosexuality.

* Death Penalty
Against.

* Gun Control
Need tougher penalties and to close loopholes that protect law abiding citizens but prevent criminals from getting their hands on guns.

* Israel conflict
Sympathies lean toward Isreal. They've got their back to a wall in a region where they are surrounded by people who want them wiped off the face of the planet. However things mustn't be pushed too far.

* Political Views
The democratic wing of the democratic party.
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Old 07-23-2006, 09:31 AM   #8
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* Iraq War
Support it

* Religion
Conservative Christian

* Abortion
Against it

* Stem Cell Research
Against it

* Gay Marriage/Rights
Against it

* Death Penalty
Support it

* Gun Control
Support moderate control - meaning a citizen should not be able to own a surface-to-air missile but should be able to own a handgun or a rifle.

* Israel conflict
Israel has a right to defend itself

* Political Views
The Republican Party is too liberal, but it remains the best choice out there.
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Old 07-23-2006, 10:49 AM   #9
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*Iraq war - what moron thought this was really a good idea?

*religion - staunch agnostic; formerly conservative christian...it's pretty scary to be on the outside looking in these days.

*abortion - unfortunate social necessity.

*stem cell research - i don't see what the problem is.

*equal rights for people - 100% support.

*death penalty - vengeance is fun but not so productive.

*gun control - people don't kill people, people with guns kill people. although i do support hunters who actually hunt for food.

*israel - religious slaughter is so 1095. a single secular state seems the only viable solution, but with religious fanatics on both sides, good luck with that one.

*political views - libertarian socialist.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:40 AM   #10
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Iraq war - This is what you get when you have imbeciles running the show. Far too complicated for this black and white, anti-nuanced administration to ever handle properly. Horrible idea, horrible execution.

Religion - Kind of a lapsed Catholic, but not completely. Every time I read a thread about religion and/or politics here, I have to admit I have urges to run into the arms of agnosticism.

Abortion - Support it in the first trimester. Not an ideal solution but I can see why it has to exist as a choice.

Stem cell research - Support it. Scientifically speaking, they may be a gold mine or they may end up being a disappointment on some fronts, but we need a lot more research, time and money to find out.

Gay marriage/rights - Support it. Nobody is equal until everybody's equal.

Death Penalty - Against it as almost every civilized nation on the planet is.

Gun Control - I've never given this issue much thought to be honest. In principle I don't believe we should be toting guns, but some exceptions should be made, for example people in rural areas, on farms and so on, I can see why they would have uses for guns.

Israel - There is no viable solution that I can see at all. Israel is agitating the situation by continuing to expand settlements and overreacting militarily to provocations. The Palestinians are agitating the situation through constant terrorism. The Arabs are agitating the situation by using the Palestinians to rile up their populations against the devil America. The Americans are agitating the situation by feeding obscene amounts of money into Israel and promoting a one-sided policy. The Europeans are agitating the situation by standing for nothing at all.

Political views - Liberal, but I do have some economic views which would be more to the right.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:47 AM   #11
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Iraq war--opposed the invasion, went to rallies and meetings, but we can't pull out now. We need to clean up our mess.

religion--liberal Roman Catholic. I don't believe in forcing my views on other people particularly if they are not religious.

abortion--This is really something people need to decide for themselves. I can't decide for them.

stem call research--very useful tool for finding a cure for diseases. As an autistic I can relate to people who need research.

Gay marriage/rights--100% for them.

Death penalty--against it.

Gun control--support it, although I believe people approved after a background check should be allowed to own guns.

Israel--Has the right to defend itself, but it's gone way too far with Lebanon.

political views--liberal wing of the Democratic Party.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:57 AM   #12
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* Iraq War: Against

* Religion: Agnostic

* Abortion: Against

* Stem Cell Research: Don't know enough about it

* Gay Marriage/Rights: No particular problem with gay marriage, though I am generally sceptical of special interest groups

* Death Penalty: In favour, in certain very limited circumstances

* Gun Control: In favour, up to a point

* Israel conflict: There will be no peace in the Midde East whilst the US continues to fund Israeli state terror and the world continues to appease Zionist imperialism and land grabs. In this context shrill demands for Syria to stop funding Hezbollah are pointless and hypocritical.

* Political Views: Traditional anti-big government conservative libertarian
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Old 07-23-2006, 12:05 PM   #13
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Iraq War - the result of neo-con PNAC zealotry and nothing to do with fighting terrorism. Still, it's hard to feel sorry for an infantile thug like Saddam Hussein.

Religion - as an institution, it's as much of a mess as Judaism around the time of Christ. It makes as much sense these days as the constructed language of a feral child separated from civilization. As such, I'm a rather liberal Christian looking to expand upon Christian philosophy in the tradition of the great medieval thinkers.

Abortion - despite having a personal distaste for abortion, I'm not about to force a woman to carry a child that she doesn't want. I'll let her deal with her own conscience.

Stem Cell Research - it makes sense in the context that we have millions of frozen embryos in fertility clinics that are slated for destruction on a regular basis. There is zero chance that they will ever become children, so their "death," so to say, can have some meaning through this research, much in the same way that the death of adults has furthered the science of anatomy. This is why I presume that stem cell research has found strong support in Congress, even amongst many otherwise pro-life conservatives.

Gay Marriage/Rights - full support, with the acknowledgment that religions should never be forced to perform rites that go against their beliefs. However, the Catholic Church has long set this precedent, as they do not recognize the marriages of anyone who does not go through their rituals. As such, all non-Catholic married couples, in their eyes, are unchaste whores living in sin!

Death Penalty - I find it uncivilized, and have disdain for those who are pro-life when it comes to abortion and are pro-death when it comes to prisoners.

Gun Control - since most legal gun owners are not a problem, I'm not sure what gun control legislation will do for America.

Israel conflict - if you poke at the bear long enough, he will attack you.

Political Views - a mixture of liberal and fiscal conservative beliefs, but, in general, I dislike strict ideology.

Melon
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Old 07-23-2006, 12:34 PM   #14
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- Iraq War

Originally supported it, now on the fence, we have to stay.

- Religion

Catholic.

- Abortion

Only for victims of rape and people that are at health risk.

- Stem Cell Research

No opinion.

- Gay Marriage/Rights

We should just come up with a different word for gay marriage. It would be defined as the unity of persons of the same gender. Not hard to do, just too many people who don't get it.

- Death Penalty

Used too frequently, should exist for truly awful crimes (serial killing, terrorism)

- Gun Control

Banning them only means the actual criminals will have them as opposed to the criminals and the people who have them for protection. There's no point.

- Israel conflict

Still not quite sure what to think.

- Political Views

I'm an Independent, but generally I side with the Republicans.
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Old 07-23-2006, 12:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


* Political Views
The Republican Party is too liberal, but it remains the best choice out there.
It all makes sense now...
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