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Old 02-25-2003, 03:33 PM   #1
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Fundamental change of the US foreign policy?

Bush administration breaks many Taboos - national and international. I won't talk about the national ones because it's your (US) business - except destruction of nature, because it infects the whole planet.
so:

-Forrest and Oilindustry gets access to Nationalparks
-Stoped the commitment of the Automotive industry of building fuelefficient cars (2004)
-Most international agreements to support nature (save the Rainforest no government focus on regenerative energies) were canceled.
-I mention the Kyoto protocol seperately because its that important.

-Biological weapon convention canceled.
-Landmine convention canceled.
-International Court canceled.

That all surpises me - because they would be ideal instruments to stop Terrorism and the spread of Weapons of Mass destruction on this planet.

-Canceled the contract between Russia and the US about to start of the "Starwars II" project to make it possible to attack countries with nuclear weapons without the fear of a nuclear revenge. Well at the moment Russia can't afford to fight with the US, but the next superpower country (China, India?) will know how the US cares about their contracts.

I understand that your president has to do some favours to the people who paid his election campaign, but this is more.. this president just dosn't care about how the world will be in a after Bush time.

To me it looks like it's more important for this government to increase their (allready unique) military superpower
And worse - it's quite logic that countries which are called "axis of evil" have to get as many wmds as possible, because contracts don't mater if you don't have the power to defend your right

Just a few thoughts.. please tell me that i'm wrong and his decisions help to save the planet and to protect the world from war and terrorism.

Klaus
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Old 02-25-2003, 03:48 PM   #2
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Bush announced in his State of the Union address that he will fund the advancement of alternative fuel cars. It was partly to show that he's not going into Iraq solely for oil. But I think he's beginning to realize that ethanol gas (corn gas) will benefit our economy too. All that has to be changed is the rubber used on the fuel injections in cars.

Let's remember that he didn't get Alaska like he wanted.
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Old 02-25-2003, 04:00 PM   #3
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Unfortunately, I think you have a better understanding of these problems than most Americans.

W. and his Administration are performing extremely poorly in my opinion. There are other problems that you did not mention that affect Americans, i. e., due process, privacy issues, fiscal policies, blurring the line between religion and state, complete failure to pursue middle east peace process, this is indefensible.

His popularity in America is based on fear.

His one success is the war on the Taliban. It is not an accomplishment of any great feat. The fact that the U. S. military, the Pentagon Generals, could blast the Taliban, in one of the world’s poorest nations, to oblivion is no great feat. They could have accomplished this with any occupant in the Whitehouse.
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Old 02-25-2003, 04:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly
Bush announced in his State of the Union address that he will fund the advancement of alternative fuel cars. It was partly to show that he's not going into Iraq solely for oil. But I think he's beginning to realize that ethanol gas (corn gas) will benefit our economy too. All that has to be changed is the rubber used on the fuel injections in cars.

Let's remember that he didn't get Alaska like he wanted.
Lilly,

I liked the hydrogen car and the aids relief in his speech.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But, I am skeptical.
The price you pay for ethanol is not the cost.

It is very highly subsidized by tax payers.

The aids relief is in doubt now because of his not having a backbone and allowing strings to be attached.

The hydrogen car, I believe is just a way to deflect detractors. It is a long way off.

California passed a law to make cars improve their gas mileage. The administration joined auto-makers in court to fight this. I believe it was the first time an Administration did this.

If California is successful in court and cars will get 20- 25% better mileage. California is 13-14 % of the U. S. population. The nation will follow. And he still wants Alaska.
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Old 02-25-2003, 04:30 PM   #5
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Re: Fundamental change of the US foreign policy?

Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
except destruction of nature, because it infects the whole planet.
You probably meant "affects" there, but I think "infects" is oddly appropriate...
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Old 02-25-2003, 04:37 PM   #6
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kristie! give him a break! he's foreign! :p and it's "effects"

Quote:
Originally posted by deep

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But, I am skeptical.
The price you pay for ethanol is not the cost.

It is very highly subsidized by tax payers.
1. So do I, which is why I did in my post. The price I pay for ethanol is 10 cents cheaper for 2 reasons:
a. they want me to buy it and know my poor college self would opt to keep that 10 cents.

b. corn is more plentiful 'round these parts than oil fields.

2. It's not that subsidized by taxpayers at all. In fact, South Dakotans and Iowans (the two largest providers of ethanol gas) don't tax their citizens for production costs. The cost is bore by those who manufacture ethanol, not by those who grow the corn or necessarily consume the gas. If any subsidies are given to people who manufacture ethanol it is alotted from subsidies that were already provided to the state by the federal government. It has been attempted to get extra money from the federal government, but has been turned down since it's such a local issue.


and extra note: they'll never take alaska.
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Old 02-25-2003, 05:19 PM   #7
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Kristie: *lol* of course your right - a typo i'm sorry for that


Lilly: if the ethanol car is a serious atempt why did G.W.B have a problem with the Kyoto protocol? (by the way in Sao Paulo there were a lot of ethanol cars years ago, we could use them today if we want to)

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Old 02-25-2003, 05:34 PM   #8
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Deep,

"His one success is the war on the Taliban. It is not an accomplishment of any great feat. The fact that the U. S. military, the Pentagon Generals, could blast the Taliban, in one of the world’s poorest nations, to oblivion is no great feat. They could have accomplished this with any occupant in the Whitehouse."

Really? If it was that easy, why were the Russians there for 10 years? If it was so easy, why didn't Clinton do exactly that in 1998 when the Al Quada, supported by the Taliban bombed two USA Embassy's in Africa?

The November elections were basically an approval of Bush's policy's over the past two years. Instead of losing seats in the House and Senate, they gained seats which is almost unheard of for the party that owns the Presidency in a mid-term election. I'm not saying that he'll definitely win in 2004, but obviously even someone thats an independent has a far different view of Bush than what those that tend to be on the left say.

As of right now I'll still be voting for Bush in 2004.
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Old 02-25-2003, 05:44 PM   #9
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I don't want to say it was easy, i'm not a military expert like you, but one problem for the Eussians was that the U.S. gave money and weapons to some extremists down there called Muhajedin, which helped a lot to defeat them.

The russians were not thinking about revenge this time, they didn't support the Taliban.

elections:
Patriotism is the dangerous buton you can press at almost every american. As long as bush fights against another country, people don't care about real problems, they stand to their leader (Same you could see in Europe during wars - the same thing works for Sharon and Arafat, they both need that war to stay popular)

Klaus

p.s. for others who dont' know: for finding out what's the difference between Muhajedin, and Taliban read a good book
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Old 02-25-2003, 07:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
His popularity in America is based on fear.

Exactly.
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Old 02-25-2003, 07:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
His popularity in America is based on fear.

In my opinion, he also knows that very well and does all he can so that Americans stay in fear.
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Old 02-25-2003, 08:11 PM   #12
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If you look at opinion polls, most Americans had a favorable opinion of George Bush before 9/11. So much for the fear factor.
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Old 02-25-2003, 09:05 PM   #13
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So much for the fear factor? I didn´t say GW Bush wasn´t popular before of 9/11.

One of the things Bush is famous for, is not clemencying any death row prisoner. All before of 9/11.

--------------------

Published on Friday, February 18, 2000 in the Times of London

Bush Refuses To Save Death-Row Grandmother
by Damian Whitworth

A FRAIL, grey-haired great-grandmother will be taken from her cell on Texas's death row next Thursday to a chamber where onlookers will see her strapped to a stretcher and injected with $86 (£53) worth of lethal chemicals.

Three days after her 63rd birthday, Betty Lou Beets looks likely to become the oldest inmate - and only the second woman - to be executed in Texas since the re-institution of the death penalty in 1976.

She will also be the 120th person to be executed on the watch of George W. Bush, the Texas Governor, who has set a record pace in disposing of those incarcerated on death row. In the midst of the campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, Mr Bush finds himself assailed by the anti-death penalty lobby, which says that he is in danger of presiding over a miscarriage of justice. Beets claims she was a battered wife. (...)

Those clamouring for clemency have been joined by Sister Helen Prejean, whose non-fiction book about a man on death row, Dead Man Walking, was turned into a film. They point out that in five other states the sentences of battered women have been commuted. During the six years that Mr Bush has been Governor, his state has far exceeded any other in executing its prisoners. Just one sentence has been commuted, that of a man who was conclusively shown to have been in a different state at the time of the crime of which he had been convicted.

----------------------

Under the leadership of George W. Bush, Texas continues to rank dead last in virtually every social service area, yet first in executions. Texas has some of the poorest funded programs to help the mentally ill (who account for a good number of the prison population). Bush's response to this dead last ranking was to insist that the legislature pass a $5 billion tax cut.

Bush has been steadfast in his refusal to recognize the significance of international treaty law, specifically the right of foreign nationals facing the death penalty to receive notification of their right to consular assistance. Texas has the second-largest death row population of foreign citizens in the USA (after California). None of these individuals were informed upon arrest of their right to consular assistance, as guaranteed under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations. Even a personal intervention by the US Secretary of State (in the Faulder case) was ignored by Bush, undermining the viability of international law, outraging nations allied to the USA and endangering the human rights of detained foreigners everywhere, including American citizens arrested abroad.

--------------------------

All before of 9/11. Lets take a look at the time after 9/11:

The Bush White House is launching its own war room to try to win the propaganda war against "lies by the Taliban" while America is literally at sleep. The move comes as Bush launches a personal p.r. blitz at home as well, with speeches next week to Americans on homeland defense and the terror war at a time when some pundits claim the war isn't going all that well. The war room is the latest step in the public-relations side of the terror war. The concept of a war room in recent U.S. politics was launched by the Clinton White House - a round-the-clock rapid-response operation aimed at domestic political foes and personal scandals.

The Bush Administration is launching an intense propaganda war and is aiming it both overseas and here at home. However, the major target of such a campaign is the American public. We must be so panicked as to allow our liberties to be taken away.

The aftermath of the September 11 attacks has already paid huge dividends in realizing this goal. On October 27, Bush signed an "Anti-terrorism" bill into existence that severely eroded Americans´ personal freedoms. Ironically, this terrible law has been officially dubbed the "Patriot Bill". President Bush and Attorney General Ashcroft asked for dictatorial powers to arrest people whom they consider terrorist, without charges, and for an indefinite period of time. Further, this law allows Federal and State government operatives to employ a wide range of sophisticated snooping techniques that should be alarming thinking Americans everywhere. The Russian KGB would have loved to have the powers of sophisticated eavesdropping capabilities that this law gives our authorities.

This law was passed without any further terrorist attacks. However, scare tactics abounded, keeping the propaganda pressure on the American public. This propaganda pressure of a new terrorist threat is continuing, as is the pressure for new erosions of personal freedom.

Let us now review some of these propaganda stories that are keeping the pressure on the American citizen so that he will allow more of his liberties, rights, and Constitutional protections to be eroded.

Study the nearly daily drumbeat of propaganda.

--------------------------------

NEWS BRIEF: :Anthrax Fear Grips Close To Epidemic Level", by Carol Marbun Miller, Miami Herald, 10/10/01.

"The escalating fear among some South Floridians about possible exposure to the lethal anthrax bacteria may be a more serious public health hazard than the infection itself, officials said Tuesday. In recent days, state public health offices have been flooded with hundreds of calls from fearful Floridians, authorities say. `From where the disease is at this point, probably the panic is more dangerous than the actual disease,' said David Roach, administrator of the Broward County Health Department."

----------------------------------------

NEWS BRIEF: "FBI Issues A Terror Alert Codename 'Skyfall': Next Few Days", Drudge Report 10/11/01.

NEWS BRIEF: "FBI Issues New Terrorism Warning", by Karen Guillo, Associated Press Writer, Washington Post, 10/29/01 .

"WASHINGTON –– The FBI issued a new terrorism warning Monday asking Americans and law enforcement to be on the highest alert for possible attacks this week in the United States and abroad. The alert was based on new information that was deemed credible but was "not specific as to intended targets or as to intended methods," FBI Director Robert Mueller said."

This wording was identical for the first warning on October 11 also. Neither FBI warning resulted in any attacks, but the American people had their consciousness heightened over the issue anyway. This kind of alert has the result of causing many people to change their lifestyles, thus changing society. Many Americans undoubtedly took this threat so seriously they experienced a "threat overload".

-----------------------------------------

NEWS BRIEF: "Representative Steve Buyer Suggests Limited Nuclear Retaliation", Yahoo News, October 18, 2001.

"U.S. Rep. Steve Buyer says that the United States should use tactical nuclear weapons against Osama bin Laden's terrorist network in Afghanistan if it is linked to recent anthrax incidents in the United States." This kind of suggestion will drive many Americans to drink, for they know that, if we are the first to use Weapons of Mass Destruction , we will open a very serious kind of Pandora's Box. If we cross that traditional "Red Line" first, then many other nations will suddenly feel free to use such weapons -- on us!

But, if the goal is to terrify the American population, then this kind of article makes excellent sense.

------------------------------------------

NEWS BRIEFS: "Hoon hesitates to send Marine Force", The Times (U.K.), 10/24/01.

"The Vice-President, Richard Cheney, said that further attacks in the US were likely as the war on terror continued. 'For the first time in our history we will probably suffer more casualties here at home than our forces will overseas', he said."

If Americans were not panicked before, they certainly should be now! Vice-President Cheney actually said that civilian casualties in the war on terrorism might exceed those on the overseas battlefield. Americans simply have never faced this kind of scenario before. Since Capitalism is built on consumer and investor confidence in the future, this kind of statement really throws a dagger into the heart of the economic system. With consumers afraid to go out to grocery shop, afraid to go to shopping malls, and afraid to carry out routine daily tasks, US economy might just slip into the tank.

------------------------------

NEWS BRIEF: "Bin Laden's nuclear threat", The Times (U.K.), 10/26/01.

"OSAMA BIN LADEN and his al-Qaeda network have acquired nuclear materials for possible use in their terrorism war against the West, intelligence sources have disclosed ... The knowledge that bin Laden has components for a nuclear weapons device in his arsenal is believed to lie behind the regular warnings from President Bush and Tony Blair that he would commit worse atrocities than the suicide assaults on New York and Washington if he were able to."

There were numerous reports that bin Laden may have small nuclear "suitcase" sized atomic bombs. If he does have them, entire cities could be annihilated. All the security in the world for a sports stadium would not suffice if bin Laden has a small nuclear device, for all he would have to do is to locate the bomb within a few miles from the stadium.

Perfect propaganda.

-----------------------------------

Its controlled conflict and rumors of conflict. Controlled conflict and fear of conflict. A little postscriptum on the principles of military propaganda:

Since war is particularly unpleasant, the military is full of euphemisms. In the 1940's, America changed the name of the War Department to the Department of Defense. Under the Reagan Administration, the MX-Missile was renamed "The Peacekeeper." During war-time, civilian casualties are referred to as "collateral damage," and the word "liquidation" is used as a synonym for "murder."

In the wake of the first world war, veterans were said to be suffering from "shell shock." After the second world war, people began to use the term "combat fatigue" to characterize the same condition. In the wake of the Vietnam War, people referred to "post-traumatic stress disorder"- a phrase that is completely disconnected from the reality of war altogether.
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Old 02-26-2003, 04:27 AM   #14
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Sting: Fear factor.



(from the Chicago Tribune which quoted the ORLANDO SENTINEL)

and don't forget Bush started the Fear-game long before 9/11 think about how he tried to establish China as the new big enemy.

While its quite popular under democratic leaders to turn away publics atention from the problems of the country by starting a flashy foreign policy imho they shouldn't play that fear game. They should remember that it can get out of control.

Klaus
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Old 02-27-2003, 08:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Kristie: *lol* of course your right - a typo i'm sorry for that


Lilly: if the ethanol car is a serious atempt why did G.W.B have a problem with the Kyoto protocol? (by the way in Sao Paulo there were a lot of ethanol cars years ago, we could use them today if we want to)

Klaus
Bush's principle objection to the Kyoto treaty was that China, India and Brazil were all exempt from the treaty. Three of the world largest polluters. The exemption could potentially give those nations a competitive advantage.
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