Freedom of Religion

[jay canseco]

Can the Constitution protect the freedom of religion? In what circumstances do religious arguments win out over rational arguements (based on fact) in a court of law?

 

[all_i_want]

the answer should be, never. religion should stay out of law, governance and must be restricted to people's private lives. it has no say in the workings of state. freedom of religion is protected by keeping it private.

 

[coemgen]

Remember, it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Also, plenty of religious argmuments are based on fact and are rational.

 

[melon]

I think we need freedom from religion. Most religious arguments, by design, are irrational and scientifically insupportable.

Melon

 

[jay canseco]

I think we need freedom from religion. Most religious arguments, by design, are irrational and scientifically insupportable.

Melon

Is that a fact?

 

[Liesje]

We need both, just like we have.

 

[deep]

Freedom for ignorance?

Evolution concerns prompte theaters to cancel volcano movie

CHARLESTON, S.C. Some movie theaters are pulling the plug on a film about volcanoes, fearing it might offend people who don't believe in evolution.
The IMAX production called "Volcanoes of the Deep Sea" makes a connection between microbes found in undersea volcanoes and human D-N-A.

The distributor says the theaters that have decided not to run it are in Texas, Georgia and the Carolinas. The director of a theater in Charleston reasons that, "Many people here believe in creationism, not evolution."

An official of the California Science Center fears the box-office ban could have a chilling effect on other science productions. He's afraid directors will drop all reference to evolution.

 

[jay canseco]

This is where freedom clashes with reason. The limits of freedom should come at the indefinable bounary where other's freedoms are infringed.

Could a logical program based on mathmatical fact determine this boundary? Can we find the integral limits on this curve? Are imaginary numbers involved?

Hal?

 

[coemgen]

Most religious arguments, by design, are irrational and scientifically insupportable.

How have you arrived at this conclusion?

 

[Irvine511]

Remember, it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Also, plenty of religious argmuments are based on fact and are rational.

i'd say we need both.

 

[coemgen]

To a certain degree Irvine, I can agree with you. Where the line is drawn is where the debate is though.

 

[jay canseco]

i'd say we need both.

I'd say we have both and they're always in conflict. Reason always wins in court. Therefore freedom of religion does not exist.

 

[Irvine511]

To a certain degree Irvine, I can agree with you. Where the line is drawn is where the debate is though.

i'd say that you are free to practice whatever religion you want, so long as it doesn't interfere with my rights and life nor does that religion break any of the nation's laws.

hmmm .... any examples anyone can come up with that might illuminate where things can get muddy? (and they do)

 

[Judah]

i'd say that you are free to practice whatever religion you want, so long as it doesn't interfere with my rights and life nor does that religion break any of the nation's laws.

hmmm .... any examples anyone can come up with that might illuminate where things can get muddy? (and they do)

This story from last year here has a couple examples.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/30/us.school.headscarves/


The first (and major part of the story) is about an 11-year-old Muslim girl who was banned by her school to wear the head scarf (went against school dress codes). U.S. government intervened mostly for ensuring "freedom of religion" reasons.

At the bottom of the story is a mention of the Florida Muslim-woman case where she wanted to be veiled for her drivers' license picture...Florida court wouldn't allow it, citing public safety reasons (sounded fair to me).

 

[deep]

Remember, it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Also, plenty of religious argmuments are based on fact and are rational.

When your children come home from school and lay out the prayer rugs
and start praying to Mecca 5 times a day you will want freedom FROM religion.

 

[jay canseco]

It's time for a summit of Reason and Religion. Agree where to disagree and define extensively who legally makes decisions under each foreseeable situation. Many of these laws already exist. If you do not go to the trouble of legally protecting yourself (say, a living will) you may be at the mercy of the religious whims of family members in unfotunate circumstances.

Of course, it needs to be defined who would make these decisions if a family member could not be found.

I believe at the time of registering for selective service, choosing legal protection for yourself should be mandatory (living will). That would appear to be an appropriate time to make that decision.

 

[all_i_want]

i am totally french towards religion. they are dealing with it pretty well. you should be able to practice your religion as you wish, but it doesnt mean you can impose your religious views on others. public servants should not be allowed to wear headscarves etc. why do some people feel the need to shove their religious ideas down others throats? keep it to yourself, we dont wanna know which religion you follow.

 

[XHendrix24]

Evolution concerns prompte theaters to cancel volcano movie CHARLESTON, S.C. Some movie theaters are pulling the plug on a film about volcanoes, fearing it might offend people who don't believe in evolution. The IMAX production called "Volcanoes of the Deep Sea" makes a connection between microbes found in undersea volcanoes and human D-N-A. The distributor says the theaters that have decided not to run it are in Texas, Georgia and the Carolinas. The director of a theater in Charleston reasons that, "Many people here believe in creationism, not evolution." An official of the California Science Center fears the box-office ban could have a chilling effect on other science productions. He's afraid directors will drop all reference to evolution.

AH! That's my hometown. I mean, I knew we had ignorant people in the South, but come on. This is just ridiculous.

i am totally french towards religion. they are dealing with it pretty well. you should be able to practice your religion as you wish, but it doesnt mean you can impose your religious views on others. public servants should not be allowed to wear headscarves etc. why do some people feel the need to shove their religious ideas down others throats? keep it to yourself, we dont wanna know which religion you follow.

Waitwait. You're saying that if someone wears something on their head, that means that they're "shoving their religious ideas down others throats"? Now, I can see a lot of people's arguments against religion in government, etc. in this thread, but I think that's just a tad on the ridiculous side. Does what certain people wear really offend you that much? To say that people shouldn't be allowed to wear certain things that show that they belong to a certain religion is ignorant and against the concept of freedom of speech. They aren't shoving anything down your throat, and there's absolutely no reason to get up in arms about it. Would you rather everyone walk around in white suits all the time with the same haircut, while you're at it?

 

[all_i_want]

judiciary, administration and legislature, and all their branches should be completely stripped off any religious allegiance. if a public servant, say a cop, wears a scarf at work, that is against the dress code for that exact reason, and it should not be allowed. public service is no place to prove you are good muslim/christian/jew whatever. do it in your private life, it is that simple.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

When your children come home from school and lay out the prayer rugs
and start praying to Mecca 5 times a day you will want freedom FROM religion.

How is this relevant?

 

[XHendrix24]

judiciary, administration and legislature, and all their branches should be completely stripped off any religious allegiance. if a public servant, say a cop, wears a scarf at work, that is against the dress code for that exact reason, and it should not be allowed. public service is no place to prove you are good muslim/christian/jew whatever. do it in your private life, it is that simple.

Oh, I see what you're saying now. I think that's fine, then. If it's against the dress code for a government-funded organization, that is. Otherwise, people should be able to wear what they please.

 

[all_i_want]

this kinda sums up the way i feel about religion. total disregard for all those rules.

'you say i took the name in vain, well i dont even know the name, but even if i did, whats it to ya?'

 

[nbcrusader]

Can the Constitution protect the freedom of religion? In what circumstances do religious arguments win out over rational arguements (based on fact) in a court of law?

There are real answers to your questions, so look past the usual anti-Christian smears.

Freedom of Religion has two components:

1. Free exercise

2. No establishment

Arguments based on doctrinal belief are non-persuasive in a court of law.

 

[Judah]

judiciary, administration and legislature, and all their branches should be completely stripped off any religious allegiance. if a public servant, say a cop, wears a scarf at work, that is against the dress code for that exact reason, and it should not be allowed. public service is no place to prove you are good muslim/christian/jew whatever. do it in your private life, it is that simple.

Well...it's never that cut and dried is it. Is it ok to wear/display a cross? A Star of David? Even as a public servant? Yes, probably. Is it ok to wear a Sikh turban? Mostly, yes (especially here in Canada, where the Sikh Mounties can wear their turbans). How about a Sikh ceremonial dagger? Well, that's iffy. How about a "Jesus Saves" t-shirt on the job (especially if it's not a job where you deal with the public too much)?

I don't have the details of how the French laws work (i.e. regarding dress codes at schools). I think they have a blanket policy of no religious expression in the dress code. Does anyone know whether that includes wearing crosses, etc.?

 

[all_i_want]

Well...it's never that cut and dried is it. Is it ok to wear/display a cross? A Star of David? Even as a public servant? Yes, probably. Is it ok to wear a Sikh turban? Mostly, yes (especially here in Canada, where the Sikh Mounties can wear their turbans). How about a Sikh ceremonial dagger? Well, that's iffy. How about a "Jesus Saves" t-shirt on the job (especially if it's not a job where you deal with the public too much)?

I don't have the details of how the French laws work (i.e. regarding dress codes at schools). I think they have a blanket policy of no religious expression in the dress code. Does anyone know whether that includes wearing crosses, etc.?

it does include wearing crosses, unless they small or concealed in some way.

 

[deep]

How is this relevant?

Why is it not?

Would you want your kids to learn this religous pratices in public schools or at other government sponsered events?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Why is it not?

Freedom OF Religion. It's in the constitution, let's not kid ourselves. Parents can't FORCE religion, nor can the government. Schools can however teach about different religions in order to provide a sense of understanding of the outside world.

Would you want your kids to learn this religous pratices in public schools or at other government sponsered events?

It wouldn't kill to be educated on different cultures and traditions. Ignorance is an alternative to education. You seem to think that because my kids would learn about Islamic traditions and customs, that it means they will become muslims.

 

[deep]

Freedom OF Religion. It's in the constitution, let's not kid ourselves. Parents can't FORCE religion, nor can the government. Schools can however teach about different religions in order to provide a sense of understanding of the outside world.

It wouldn't kill to be educated on different cultures and traditions. Ignorance is an alternative to education. You seem to think that because my kids would learn about Islamic traditions and customs, that it means they will become muslims.

Learning about it would be good.

However, in many parts of this country we would have bible study during class time.

And if children were made to read the Koran their parents would be up in arms.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Learning about it would be good.

Absolutely. Take Islamic nations for example, which will not allow people to learn about other religions.

However, in many parts of this country we would have bible study during class time.

And that's not right in a public school. If that's what you were getting after, I missed it earlier.

And if children were made to read the Koran their parents would be up in arms.

They would certainly not be happy, quite a few of them anyways.

 

[AcrobatMan]

I will wear a hat always because my religion tells me to wear it.

I refuse to take off my hat when I go to school.

And then I cry foul play, injustice, inequality, racism , intolerance , and not freedom of religion....