Freedom IS Free

[neverman]

Who ever came up with this "freedom isn't free" credo must have never read the Bill of Rights.

It is my understanding..having read the aforementioned, the EVERYBODY was born with rights such as "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." The very essences of freedom.

Notice, I say BORN with these rights.

These days I think if I want REAL freedom, I need to immigrate to Canada or somewhere in the E.U.

I feel utterly oppressed by my government.....and it is a shame.

 

[Abomb-baby]

Freedom isn't free because so many people in our history have fought to defend it. It's not that deep.

P.S. If you need any boxes for moving, let me know.

 

[Sonoftelepunk]

I feel utterly oppressed by my government.....and it is a shame.

Oh sure, you can feel oppressed by the government, but if you're living in the U.S. you aren't oppressed.

 

[the iron horse]

"I need to immigrate to Canada or somewhere in the E.U."


Take the ride,if you wish, neverman,

Please let us know if you find REAL freedom there.

 

[melon]

"I need to immigrate to Canada or somewhere in the E.U."


Take the ride,if you wish, neverman,

Please let us know if you find REAL freedom there.

Why wouldn't you?

Besides, you can't immigrate to the EU at all. It's impossible. The EU is nothing but an organized lockbox.

Canada is less stringent, but you need about $4000 at your disposal and qualify under their skilled worker program for permanent residency. It's not a cakewalk.

Melon

 

[financeguy]

Besides, you can't immigrate to the EU at all. It's impossible. The EU is nothing but an organized lockbox.

Do you mind citing some evidence or sources, or alternatively just admit that your statement above is bullshit.

I have worked with Americans, Canadians, Malaysians, Chinese, Iraqis, and others.

Walking down O'Connell Street Dublin, it's like the United Nations. Which personally I think is a good thing, it brings vibrancy and variety to Dublin city.

All right here in the EU.

Are you telling me I imagined it?

 

[melon]

Do you mind citing some evidence or sources, or alternatively just admit that your statement above is bullshit.

I have worked with Americans, Canadians, Malaysians, Chinese, Iraqis, and others.

Walking down O'Connell Street Dublin, it's like the United Nations. Which personally I think is a good thing, it brings vibrancy and variety to Dublin city.

All right here in the EU.

Are you telling me I imagined it?

I've talked to other Europeans who have told me exactly that. But they also aren't Irish.

If you don't mind telling me how they got there, I'd love to hear it.

Melon

 

[anitram]

I do believe the large numbers of Canadians in the UK has to do with there being different regulations for Commonwealth immigration than other nations for many years. I am not sure what the current rules are.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

My understanding from a fellow grad student (who travels extensively around Europe ), is that the situation is much closer to melon's description, especially France. Americans just can't pick up and move over there because it is a very lengthy process.

 

[financeguy]

If you don't mind telling me how they got there, I'd love to hear it.

Leave it with me....

 

[financeguy]

I do believe the large numbers of Canadians in the UK has to do with there being different regulations for Commonwealth immigration than other nations for many years. I am not sure what the current rules are.

Possibly. However Ireland is not part of the Commonwealth, neither is it part of the UK, but I have worked with a number of Canadian work colleagues.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Re: Re: Freedom IS Free

Oh sure, you can feel oppressed by the government, but if you're living in the U.S. you aren't oppressed.

Is that so. Do gays and poor people just feel oppressed then? They aren't really?
Your country is one of the most warped in this so called free world. Hate to say it. You all deserve better, but dont seem to want it. Very strange.

 

[hiphop]

Immigration laws differ for each and every country in the EU. The EU acts on the principle of subsidiarity. I know a few Americans here, and I don´t think it was so difficult for them to find a place in Austria. It is much more difficult when you´re really poor, coming from Eastern Europe, former USSR or Africa. We got about 40,000 Americans, English etc. in Vienna alone (partly because of the UN) that make a part of the international community. we got an English bookshop, Irish pubs, an English newspaper, English radio for the international community, just name it. People are very welcome here.

From my understanding, it is much more tight to get a greencard. Two buddies of mine, radio DJs, are from the States. It doesn´t seem the immigration process was that complicated for them.

 

[hiphop]

"I need to immigrate to Canada or somewhere in the E.U."


Take the ride,if you wish, neverman,

Please let us know if you find REAL freedom there.

If you mean the REAL freedom of walking the streets at 3 a.m. without having fear to get mugged or raped, without needing a weapon to defend yourself, free (or comparatively cheap) healthcare and universities, yeah.

We might also have a tiny little place left for you, iron horse.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

How there is a discussion after this post is beyond me. Clearly the guy didn't get the quote "Freedom is not free."

...Move on.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

If you mean the REAL freedom of walking the streets at 3 a.m. without having fear to get mugged or raped, without needing a weapon to defend yourself, free (or comparatively cheap) healthcare and universities, yeah.

We might also have a tiny little place left for you, iron horse.

I saw the movie "Crash" recently. Any desire to ever visit the US kinda vanished after that.

 

[u2bonogirl]

wow. you DO realize that that document hasnt always existed.....and that a lot of blood was shed to make it possible for us to have such freedom and democracy?

 

[Rono]

wow. you DO realize that that document hasnt always existed.....and that a lot of blood was shed to make it possible for us to have such freedom and democracy?

Depends who you ask, i guess in some countries is freedom * to take what you can if you are the strongest and the richest*


and in my opnion is a two party system not democrazy,........



.

 

[financeguy]

If you mean the REAL freedom of walking the streets at 3 a.m. without having fear to get mugged or raped, without needing a weapon to defend yourself, free (or comparatively cheap) healthcare and universities, yeah.

To be fair here, there are plenty of areas in plenty of European cities that I wouldn't walk the streets at 3 a.m. Belfast, Belgrade, London, Dublin, Paris, etc, all have their dodgy areas.

Most German and Austrian cities seem pretty safe though.

 

[financeguy]

People are very welcome here.

I am not singling out Vienna (I love the city) but let us not pretend that there are not racist attitudes among some of its inhabitants. Again, just in the interests of fairness.

 

[Angela Harlem]

To be fair here, there are plenty of areas in plenty of European cities that I wouldn't walk the streets at 3 a.m.

And to be fair, that isn't unique to Europe or America or anywhere. There's probably more unsafe areas in Australia than there are safe. We're by no means a dangerous country and crime is at a normal rate, but shady is shady and it's everywhere. I think our stats are something like a car is stolen every 3 minutes and someone is mugged every 11 minutes. It's not good.

 

[financeguy]

There's probably more unsafe areas in Australia than there are safe. We're by no means a dangerous country and crime is at a normal rate, but shady is shady and it's everywhere. I think our stats are something like a car is stolen every 3 minutes and someone is mugged every 11 minutes. It's not good.

Really? I'm going there in a week......glad you warned me. I'd always assumed Australia was very safe for some reason.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Well, define safe, I spose is the point. I'd never recommend you walk around the city on your own after dark, and to definitely be careful in certain areas. Sydney is sprawled out, and the suburbs can vary immensely in just a few kms.

But we're nice people!


Where you going, exactly?

 

[financeguy]

Sydney and Melbourne.......possibly more.......will probably stick to the central areas.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Good choices. Have a great trip!

 

[financeguy]

I will try not to drink too much........

 

[Sonoftelepunk]

Re: Re: Re: Freedom IS Free

Is that so. Do gays and poor people just feel oppressed then? They aren't really?
Your country is one of the most warped in this so called free world. Hate to say it. You all deserve better, but dont seem to want it. Very strange.

OmG gays and pOor pPl are OppREsSed!11 [/bitch,whine, moan]

They are not oppressed. The gay population in the US is very free compared to a lot of other places. They may not be allowed to marry in every state, but that's because every state hasn't lost it's morals.

The poor in this country are not oppressed. Yes, they may be in a harder situation than those of wealthier backgrounds, but there is nothing that is keeping them from achieving a better life. You want oppressed poor? Go to India.

 

[VertigoGal]

Re: Re: Re: Freedom IS Free

Is that so. Do gays and poor people just feel oppressed then? They aren't really?
Your country is one of the most warped in this so called free world. Hate to say it. You all deserve better, but dont seem to want it. Very strange.

Damn, I didn't know poverty and homophobia were limited to the US. Well, now I know!

Have fun on your trip financeguy, my aunt had her honeymoon in Sydney last year and absolutely loved it.

 

[VertigoGal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom IS Free

They may not be allowed to marry in every state, but that's because every state hasn't lost it's morals.

I generally agree with your other points, but this is just bigotry. The state is not the moral authority, thank you very much. Your religion may not recognize gay marriage, but other people shouldn't be subject to that.

(haha, this thread is turning into a gay marriage thead )

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom IS Free

They may not be allowed to marry in every state, but that's because every state hasn't lost it's morals.

Not intending on turning this into yet another homosexuality debate, but I just wanted to comment on this...so, having morals means that you can deny people the chance to do something that straight people get to do every day (also, never mind the fact that the divorce rate among heterosexuals is quite high)?

Anywho, back to the topic at hand, personally, my view is that there's good and bad things about all countries. No one country is perfect or downright horrible.

Also, financeguy, yeah, do have fun on your trip . Australia, eh? I'm jealous. I want to visit that area of the world. Perhaps one day...

Angela