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Old 02-16-2008, 09:59 AM   #46
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
I suspect that if the situation was reversed, many Obama supporters might very well want those delegations seated and would be fighting for the voices of those poor, disenfranchised voters. I'm not advocating that the delegates be seated because in all honesty I know I would not be advocating equally if Obama had won those states and I would be being disingenuous. If my motivations aren't pure, I'll tell you that.

This situation bears some similarity to Mr. Obama apparently pulling back on a pledge to use only public financing in the general election if the Republican nominee pledged the same, which McCain did. (in an article posted in the other thread). At the time he called for the pledge, the public financing route was advantageous to him. Now that he has taken in huge sums of money, it is not.

And bears similarity to many things the Clintons have done.

In politics and life, it is easy to have principles when you benefit from them. Let's see who has principles when it hurts or inconveniences them. You can make an argument perhaps on who is more pure or less pure but you can't present any of the candidates as a benchmark of pure.
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Old 02-16-2008, 10:47 AM   #47
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This situation bears some similarity to Mr. Obama apparently pulling back on a pledge to use only public financing in the general election if the Republican nominee pledged the same, which McCain did.
He never made a pledge. He said he would be happy to discuss it if the other side did so as well.

He should most certainly not agree to it at this point, because Republican 527s are going to rip him apart and they have loads of storage $. Since McCain/Feingold doesn't address the inherent unfairness of 527s, there is no level playing field yet where public funds would be sufficient.

*I feel the same way about Hillary - if she is the nominee, she should agree to no such thing. It is not her problem that McCain can't fundraise.
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Old 02-16-2008, 10:58 AM   #48
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It is not her problem that McCain can't fundraise.


Dirty Money and convicts for Hillary:




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Old 02-16-2008, 11:04 AM   #49
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If the New York Times article is correct:

"On Thursday, in an effort by the McCain campaign to speak with one voice and put the onus for abandoning the system on Mr. Obama, several McCain advisers called on him to make good on his pledge. Mr. Obama was the candidate who proposed the pledge in the first place, in February 2007, a time when he was not raising the prodigious sums he is now.

.....

“I’m concerned with the position the Obama campaign is taking,” Mr. Wertheimer said. “He is now saying this is an option. But they made a commitment in 2007 to do this. There were no conditions, no arguments, that ‘we’ll decide this when we get the nomination.’ I think it’s very important for Senator Obama to reaffirm the commitment that he made.”

Mr. Wertheimer also pointed to one of Mr. Obama’s responses to a questionnaire released in November by the Midwest Democracy Network, an alliance of 20 civic and public-interest groups in Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Wisconsin.

Asked if he would participate in the public-financing system if he was nominated for president and his major opponents agreed to do the same, Mr. Obama wrote yes. Then he added, also in writing, “If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.”

I didn't say this decision was the wrong decision. In fact, I think it is a pragmatic thing to do, a smart political move. However, the point I was making is that it was a principle he took a stand on when it would work to his advantage and one he thinks twice on when it is not. And certainly McCain is going to fight for it since it is now advantageous to him. And certainly a principle Hillary never championed.
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Old 02-16-2008, 11:47 AM   #50
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He said he would aggressively "pursue agreement" - not that he'd accede to whatever whim McCain got up his ass now that he can't raise money. Let them agree on terms regarding 527s (will never happen, as the two of them can't dictate a free speech issue given that proper restrictions have not to date been placed on 527s).

McCain can say Obama is unprincipled if he wishes. But it is not principled to concede an election to swiftboat groups and others that have tens of millions of dollars waiting in the wings to attack Obama. Besides I am not really sure how much McCain wants to whine about this given that most of the Republican party and certainly the Republican money backers absolutely HATE his guts for campaign finance reform and are just waiting for the first opportunity to dismantle McCain-Feingold.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:09 PM   #51
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That may be. The funny thing is I have always been loyal to the Dems, but if the popular vote goes for Obama and the nominee ends up Hillary based on her protest and appeal for Fl and MI , how can you justify that ?
I don't fucking care. If you're willing to not vote for Clinton in November just because of this, then go ahead and vote for McCain. There is no excuse that can be justified for a "loyal" Democrat to bail because of a delegate fight. It's ridiculous to think that a Republican may win because Democrats are pissed about something like this.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:14 PM   #52
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I do think people need to pull themselves together here. I can see why someone would dislike the Clintons or their tactics (frankly some of them are a great turn off). But, the next two SCOTUS justices to retire will be liberal leaning justices. With McCain making nominations, it could take your country a generation to reverse the awful decisions that will be made. It's bad enough Alito is on there and will be on there for decades.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:23 PM   #53
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But, the next two SCOTUS justices to retire will be liberal leaning justices. With McCain making nominations, it could take your country a generation to reverse the awful decisions that will be made.
No. It's all about getting your favorite candidate to win. It has nothing to do with the future of our country.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:48 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I do think people need to pull themselves together here. I can see why someone would dislike the Clintons or their tactics (frankly some of them are a great turn off). But, the next two SCOTUS justices to retire will be liberal leaning justices. With McCain making nominations, it could take your country a generation to reverse the awful decisions that will be made. It's bad enough Alito is on there and will be on there for decades.
This is why Republicans are rallying around McCain.

Our country is still right of Center, regardless of how many posts are acumulated in FYM.

good day-

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Old 02-16-2008, 12:52 PM   #55
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Our country is still right of Center, regardless of how many posts are acumulated in FYM.
No, it's not.

Good day.

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Old 02-16-2008, 02:03 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


This is why Republicans are rallying around McCain.
Really? I don't see much rallying...


Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Our country is still right of Center, regardless of how many posts are acumulated in FYM.

Your center is way off then...
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:05 PM   #57
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Compared to the rest of the world, our country does tend toward the right.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:18 PM   #58
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Depends on what parts of the world we're talking about...
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:31 PM   #59
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Compared to almost all of the Western world (if not all), you're way right of centre - sadly and unfortunately.

I'm not sure whether the US, by US standards is actually right of centre or if this is a diamondesque dream.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:54 PM   #60
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"I will get my ppl Right"..

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