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Old 11-06-2005, 10:11 PM   #31
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Originally posted by show_don't_tell


Yes, I do think that it should be just for concieving children. That was the original purpose. Fine then, contracceptives shouldn't be banned, but they should be restricted. Teens should not have access to them.


it amazes me when people say that sex is only for procreation.

i've never had sex wtih the intention of procreation, and haven't had any sort of sex in the past 5 years where a baby was possible. so, i feel fully qualified to tell you all about the purpose for sex beyond procreation since it's really not an option for me.

sex is the physical expression of love.
sex is a physical form of communication.
sex is a unique form of bonding and sharing.
sex is a way to express love and emotions in the most intimte way possible without words, or that exist beyond words.
sex is a way to be naked in front of someone, in a symbolic sense.
sex is a way to choose to be vulnerable, or assertive, or both in the same moment.
sex is a way to access the spiritual through the flesh.

and that's just a beginning of a beginning.
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Old 11-06-2005, 10:51 PM   #32
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Originally posted by show_don't_tell
Yes, I do think that it should be just for concieving children.
So if a married couple finds out they are physically incapable of having children, they can't have sex ever again or they are going to hell?

You can't be serious.
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Old 11-06-2005, 11:06 PM   #33
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Originally posted by show_don't_tell
Abortion and contraceptives of any kind should be banned. They don't solve any problems, they just create them, by giving people the false illusion of consequence-free sex. Who cares if I have sex, I'll just wear a condom! And if I get my girlfriend pregnant by accident (which can't happen because condoms are infallible [/sarcasm]), then she can just get an abortion! How wonderful! so now we have teens with HIV/AIDS who thought that the condom would protect them against anything, and it didn't. Abstinence is the only 100% protection against pregnancy and STDs. Abortion is just a false illusion of security.
Maybe you should start a political action committee and try to pass a federal constitutional amendment. Maybe then heterosexuals will start taking gay rights seriously when reactionary theocrats start trying to legislate their humanity into nonexistence, as well. I would get a nice little chuckle out of that.

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Old 11-06-2005, 11:10 PM   #34
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Schadenfraude can be fun
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:20 PM   #35
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Originally posted by melon
Just like I thought. You have no proof.

That link does not say that they're teaching "masturbation and sexual intercourse" to five year olds. In fact, short of saying that they've created different "levels," they don't even describe what they would teach to those different levels.

Secondly, that's not even the CDC. It's a private PAC that advocates policy on sexual education, but, clearly, the government does not have to listen to them.

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No, you're absolutely wrong. The CDC commissioned the publication of the Guidelines for Comprehensive Sexuality Education by the SIECUS.

These excerpts are the exact words from the SIECUS guide...

Middle Childhood (ages 5-8)
*Vaginal intercourse occurs when a man and a woman place the penis inside the vagina.
*Touching and rubbing one's own genitals to feel good is called masturbation.
*Some boys and girls masturbate and others do not.
*Both boys and girls may discover that their bodies feel good when touched.
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:25 PM   #36
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Originally posted by deep
do you disagree with these "stated values."?
I disagree strongly with the social engineers who teach kids as young as five about sex and masturbation. Any reason why that's unreasonable?
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:40 PM   #37
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
No, you're absolutely wrong. The CDC commissioned the publication of the Guidelines for Comprehensive Sexuality Education by the SIECUS.

These excerpts are the exact words from the SIECUS guide...

Middle Childhood (ages 5-8)
*Vaginal intercourse occurs when a man and a woman place the penis inside the vagina.
*Touching and rubbing one's own genitals to feel good is called masturbation.
*Some boys and girls masturbate and others do not.
*Both boys and girls may discover that their bodies feel good when touched.
You are taking these excerpts out of context and twisting it to something entirely different. I read the guidlines. These are guidlines saying that these things, these questions may arise, it's not a how to teaching manual. If you look further, which I'm sure you didn't, it talks further about masterbation in the next developmental stage trying to let children closer to puberty or in puberty that any questions about masterbation or concerns should be talked about with an adult. This isn't social engineering, it's education.
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:42 PM   #38
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I disagree strongly with the social engineers who teach kids as young as five about sex and masturbation. Any reason why that's unreasonable?
At 5 most kids won't be able to grasp these concepts, but by 8 you should have a basic idea of where babies come from. If not, your child's going to get taught all kinds of things on the playground.
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:47 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I disagree strongly with the social engineers who teach kids as young as five about sex and masturbation. Any reason why that's unreasonable?
I have to say I agree with you there and eight is a little young for the intercourse education too. I think eleven or twelve is a more appropriate age. I mean at eight years old I was more concerned about getting an Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr. card, but that's just me.
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Old 11-07-2005, 09:21 PM   #40
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^ I'm assuming you don't have an eleven year old yourself, because if you do, they're very unusual in that regard. Most kids will want to know where babies come from and why boys and girls' bodies are different LONG before that. Like BVS said, if you really wait that long to start the discussion, they'll already have "learned" a lot from their friends by the time you do.

To a large extent, noting your child's interest level and the sophistication of their questions is itself the best guide to knowing what to discuss, and in how much depth, and when. Giving a five year old an exhaustive blow-by-blow of how sex and procreation work won't make them lustful or sexually precocious; it will just bore them out of their skulls.

Also, it's simply reality that many preschool-age kids will notice that touching their genitals feels good and proceed to do it, whether you've discussed that with them or not. Of course you should let them know that that's not something to do in public, but that shouldn't be the end of it. Again, this doesn't mean you have to give them an exhaustive lecture on The Fine Art of Pleasuring Oneself or whatever, but neither should you allow them to associate it with nothing more than parental disapproval. That's a good way to set the stage for sexuality=secret stuff to be kept from Mom and Dad, which is always a bad lesson to teach.
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Old 11-07-2005, 10:36 PM   #41
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Originally posted by yolland
^ I'm assuming you don't have an eleven year old yourself, because if you do, they're very unusual in that regard. Most kids will want to know where babies come from and why boys and girls' bodies are different LONG before that. Like BVS said, if you really wait that long to start the discussion, they'll already have "learned" a lot from their friends by the time you do.

To a large extent, noting your child's interest level and the sophistication of their questions is itself the best guide to knowing what to discuss, and in how much depth, and when. Giving a five year old an exhaustive blow-by-blow of how sex and procreation work won't make them lustful or sexually precocious; it will just bore them out of their skulls.

Also, it's simply reality that many preschool-age kids will notice that touching their genitals feels good and proceed to do it, whether you've discussed that with them or not. Of course you should let them know that that's not something to do in public, but that shouldn't be the end of it. Again, this doesn't mean you have to give them an exhaustive lecture on The Fine Art of Pleasuring Oneself or whatever, but neither should you allow them to associate it with nothing more than parental disapproval. That's a good way to set the stage for sexuality=secret stuff to be kept from Mom and Dad, which is always a bad lesson to teach.


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Old 11-07-2005, 10:55 PM   #42
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Please people no facts let's leave this up to those who have never had children.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:10 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You are taking these excerpts out of context and twisting it to something entirely different. I read the guidlines. These are guidlines saying that these things, these questions may arise, it's not a how to teaching manual. If you look further, which I'm sure you didn't, it talks further about masterbation in the next developmental stage trying to let children closer to puberty or in puberty that any questions about masterbation or concerns should be talked about with an adult. This isn't social engineering, it's education.
Those were the exact words. Prove that I took them out of context.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:11 AM   #44
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Originally posted by randhail


I have to say I agree with you there and eight is a little young for the intercourse education too. I think eleven or twelve is a more appropriate age. I mean at eight years old I was more concerned about getting an Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr. card, but that's just me.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:14 AM   #45
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Please people no facts let's leave this up to those who have never had children.
Funny, plenty of people who've never had children comment on these issues every day.
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