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Old 08-25-2004, 01:08 PM   #46
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O'Neill has also been caught in a lie...he claimed that neither he nor Kerry were in Cambodia, but in some WH Nixon tapes he was heard saying otherwise. This was reported last night on CNN if I can find an article I'll link it.
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Old 08-25-2004, 03:51 PM   #47
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Interesting...

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/...bush_campaign/

Quote:
Lawyer advising veterans group running anti-Kerry ads resigns from Bush campaign

By Sharon Theimer, Associated Press | August 25, 2004

WASHINGTON -- An election lawyer for President Bush who also has been advising a veterans group running TV ads against Democrat John Kerry resigned Wednesday from Bush's campaign.

...

Ginsberg's acknowledgment Tuesday evening that he was providing legal advice to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth marked the second time in days that a person associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign had been connected to the group, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort.

The Bush campaign and the veterans' group have said repeatedly that there is no coordination.
This is getting interesting...

BTW, it's not only Bush aides that appear to support anti-Kerry groups, but also vice versa (Kerry aides supporting anti-Bush groups). I think both should make a choice and resign from one of the campaigns. And preferably leave the anti-ads behind them...
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Old 08-25-2004, 03:55 PM   #48
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Unfortunately anti-ads work and they're so rarely 100% true....or even 50% for that matter.
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Old 08-25-2004, 04:47 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
O'Neill has also been caught in a lie...he claimed that neither he nor Kerry were in Cambodia, but in some WH Nixon tapes he was heard saying otherwise. This was reported last night on CNN if I can find an article I'll link it.
It was on CNN Newsnight
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/24/asb.00.html

About 1/4 the way down. Or "Find" the word "command."

Quote:
JOHNS: Behind the scenes, Kerry's aides were fighting the swift boat charges with unusual ferocity. They say they have evidence one of the top members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is an outright liar.

The co-author of the book "Unfit for Command," former swift boat commander John O'Neill said Kerry made up a story about being in Cambodia beyond the legal borders of the Vietnam War in 1968.

O'Neill said no one could cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O'Neill said precisely the opposite to then President Richard Nixon.

O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.

NIXON: In a swift boat?

O'NEILL: Yes, sir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Now, O'Neill may have an explanation for this but he has not returned CNN's calls. What does seem clear is that a top member of the swift boat group is now being held to the same standard of literal accuracy they've tried to impose on John Kerry -- Aaron.

Contrast that Nixon tape with what O'Neill said in his new book:
Quote:
Kerry was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there.


More interesting Nixon tape transcripts.
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Old 08-25-2004, 05:04 PM   #50
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Thanks ThatGuy.
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Old 08-25-2004, 07:13 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy


First of all, let me apologize for the snarky comment. It was rude and out of line, and I am sorry.

Secondly, I find it interesting that you accuse Kerry of painting all soldiers in Vietnam with a braod brush, and then do the same thing yourself regarding anti-war protesters. I really doubt that many protesters burned down ROTC buildings, etc. Do you see how in the heat of the moment, when you're talking about something that you have strong feelings about, it's easy to cast the net a bit too wide?

John Kerry was testifying as a representative to a group of soldiers. He was testifying to what he and the other soldiers claimed to have seen while in Vietnam. If that contradicts what your father and his friends saw, that's fine. Unless they were in very senior positions I don't see how it would be possible for anyone involved in the war to have a complete picture of it.

You're right, John Kerry had no evidence, just the testimony of dozens of soldiers. I honestly don't see how it would be possible for him to have provided any hard evidence to the committee. To say that he should not have testified without evidence may be a valid point. But, what if the Abu Ghraib whistleblower hadn't had any evidence? Should he still have come forward? Would you have believed him without the pictures?
Perhaps "some" would have been a better word to use in regards to protestors burning down ROTC buildings. It is a fact that many ROTC buildings were burned down. But I never indicated in any way that a majority or all committed such acts. Kerry on the other hand made the unsubstantiated brutality claims the key feature of his testimony and indicated that such acts were not isololated acts and were done with the knowledge of all officers at every level of command.

The fact is most veterans served in Vietnam honorably and did not commit war crimes, unlike what Kerry claims. It is also a fact that most veterans received some form of harrassment or ill treatment by Americans, at one time or another, in the 10 year period after they returned from Vietnam.

I just heard a very sad story about one Veteran who was almost beat up and left for dead in Airport in Alaska on his way back home from Vietnam, by 5 individuals that accused him of murdering baby's and other bullshit. A couple of months later he saw John Kerry's testimony on TV and was very disturbed. He did not mention or talk about the fact that he was a veteran for the next 10 years. It is very sad, but thousands of veterans have suffered in silence in the years following the Vietnam War and Kerry has a small part in mobilizing resentment and anger against Veterans with his testimony before congress in 1971 which down played veterans roles as Great Men and accused most of them of horrible acts without evidence.

As far as Ab Ghraib, it should still be investigated even without tangible evidence and the military does these things ALL the time about stuff you never even hear of. Ab Ghraib of course pales in comparison to what John Kerry accused Vietnam veterans of.
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