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Old 12-08-2004, 11:00 AM   #76
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I am just here to hug Dread. I'm so sorry about your friend.



No matter what the issue is, anger leads to self-hate which leads to violence. And in the process, you and your loved ones are hurt.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:05 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
What I agree with you on is that there are MANY things listed as sins in the bible. It is EASIER to target a homosexual as a sinner and publically use it to make yourself seem righteous.
Yeah...I freakin' hate it when people do that, 'cause doesn't that same Bible also say something about how he without sin can be the first one to cast stones and whatnot? Nobody's perfect, so it bugs me when I see some people out there who seem to think otherwise.

Angela
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:07 AM   #78
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I have had deep friendships with many, many gays and lesbians for more years than you, Macfisto, have been alive on this planet. Since you only know one gay person (you said in another thread, if I recall correctly), and you have very little experience with gays, I just don't understand why you seem to be so obsessed with this issue. I don't mean to be rude, and I respect the fact that you're trying to understand something you have limited life experience with, but frankly, you really don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you take up a cause you actually have some experience with.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:10 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
You have every right to feel that way, Dreadsox. It could be a very personal issue with you, having a friend lose his life over it, and I'm very sorry to hear about that.
Thank you....

Yet other than your initial article I have seen nothing to prove the FACTS that I am basing my opinions, not feelings, on.

I have questioned the intelligence of having non-professionals in the psychiatric field, being teachers, use this man's program and made plenty of other points.

My opinions, not feelings, are based on the courses I have taken, my readings on the topic, the research I have read on the topic, and my interactions with students.

Somehow, I am leaning in the direction that this was not an honest attempt at dialogue.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:11 AM   #80
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The reason I discuss this issue often is to get a different perspective. I believe very strongly that you don't know your own views until you hear everyone else's. I'm not trying to shove an agenda down anyone's throat, I'm trying to ask realistic, valid questions.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:12 AM   #81
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Thanks to any and all who sent well wishes. I really did not bring it up for that purpose. It just started to come out yesterday after thinking about the topic, and realizing it was just before Christmas 1993 that he passed away.

He was one fun kid to watch in religion classes. He was well on his way towards making a difference in the world.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:14 AM   #82
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I only think it's positive that you brought it up, it helps me understand why you might feel very sensative to the issue.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:19 AM   #83
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See, your word choice somehow is implying that I am overly emotional about it.

If that is not your intent fine....

I have presented plenty of facts and from the position of a professional educator without the emotion to show that I am not basing my position on "Feelings" or "emotions" as you seem to keep pointing too.

Other than the two articles you posted I have not seen much other than you are chalking my postion up to "feelings and emotions."
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:21 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
See, your word choice somehow is implying that I am overly emotional about it.

If that is not your intent fine....
Not my intention, I don't mean to imply that anyone here is overemotional.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:23 AM   #85
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Not my intention, I don't mean to imply that anyone here is overemotional.
WE are good.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:28 AM   #86
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Since the Episcopal Church takes a unique stance on the issue, do you think the homosexual community responds well to it?
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:42 AM   #87
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Since the Episcopal Church takes a unique stance on the issue, do you think the homosexual community responds well to it?
I will give you my best attempt at an answer to this because I have only been attending the Episcopal Church since February.

The Episcopal Church is divided on this issue as are many. I find it refreshing to have a woman priest who is not hiding who she is sexually from the congregation. I find it refreshing to hear her preach on Sunday knowing that she is not some perfect human being. She comes forward as she is as imperfect as I am, and when she speaks of a loving God, and of what we should be doing as Chrisitians not just as a Church worshipping together, but as people with a responsibilty to walk out the doors and help the homeless, and feed the poor, and help those with AIDS, my heart sings.

When I hear the bishop say while I was at an AIDS conference a month ago that it is time to stop arguing about the homosexuality and gay and start loving our neighbors and doing something about AIDS and being a friend to those who need friendship my heart sang out with joy.

But, it is still a church divided. Some places in AFRICA are no longer accepting ERF money because of the gay Bishop.

If you are asking me, do I know how the homesexual community has reacted towards my congregation I cannot say. Isn't that the way it should be though? I have no clue who is gay or not, and quite honsetly it has never crossed my mind. I can tell you that the number of families switching into our church is increasing. I find that to be interesting and I only know this because of the sizzes of the Sunday school classes.
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Old 12-08-2004, 12:24 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Thanks to any and all who sent well wishes. I really did not bring it up for that purpose. It just started to come out yesterday after thinking about the topic, and realizing it was just before Christmas 1993 that he passed away.
No, hey, that's okay, I totally understand . And you're welcome.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
He was one fun kid to watch in religion classes. He was well on his way towards making a difference in the world.
Aw...

Well, hey, if it helps you feel better, he seems like he was a good person from what you've told us, and he obviously had a positive effect on you, so if that's the legacy he's left behind, I can't think of a better one to have .

Angela
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Old 12-08-2004, 12:26 PM   #89
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Hey Dredsox, thanks for the response to my post. (And I'm sorry to hear about your freind as well. )
And actually the Bible is clear about homosexuality — 1 Corinthains 6:9,10 says "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prositutes nor homosexual offenders...will inherit the kingdom of God."
To me, and I'm open to others' input and discussion about this verse, homosexual "offenders" are those who actually have homosexual sex or, as you mentioned, lustful thoughts (yes, you're right, Jesus did say to have lust in your heart after a woman is committing adultery). I'm not sure though if a guy simply being attracted to another guy is a sin, and I guess that was what I wanted to say in my last post. I think there's a diffence between me simply admiring God's creation and saying, "Yeah, that woman is cute," verses me thinking about another woman and me in bed. You know? So I don't know if a man being attracted to a man and having thoughts that aren't necessarily out of lust, is a sin. Does that make sense? Or am I just rambling and spliting hairs? Again, this is just my attempt to understand God's word. Obviously, he has the final say on this matter, not me.
Interestingly, after reading that verse again to put it in this post, I read the next one, which reads: "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
What would you say that means? (I'm seriously wondering, not trying to piss you off or anything.)
Also, I wasn't saying everyone who grows up with abuse or a broken home or whatever has the potential to be gay. I do know that a good amount of people who are gay have had sexually abusive childhoods though.
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Old 12-08-2004, 12:47 PM   #90
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I appreciate your honest response, Dread. I do feel that a lot of Christians need to concentrate on loving their neighbors as themselves, rather than throw stones at them. The priest you have is interesting, I don't really see too many churches that would be quite that open, but really, who are we to judge? I think having a former black panther in my own church, who allowed God to transform him into such a nice guy that he is now demonstrates a lot to me. I'm not really trying to associating that with homosexuality in any way, other than maybe to believe that miracles do happen.
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