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Old 01-20-2005, 06:48 AM   #16
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Re: Re: Re: for those who believe in a god (any god)

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Originally posted by indra


I don't care about proof in this thread. What I want to know is, what does it do for you?
God isn't a product that "does" any one specific thing, he just "is", it's hard to elucidate exactly in the terms you've defined, yes He's a source of strength and comfort, but it's more than just a securty blanket thing.


I'll ponder this a bit more and see if I can come up with a better way of describing it.
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Old 01-20-2005, 06:52 AM   #17
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My belief in God provides some stability in my life that wouldn't be there otherwise. Things are always changing. It's nice to have something that doesn't change--God.
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:12 AM   #18
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My question is: how can you find any comfort in sheer dumb luck?

And my comfort doesn't come from knowing God as simply the Almighty Creator. Knowing that He knows me, cares for me and loves me, and was willing to die for me overwhelms me with comfort.
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:15 AM   #19
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Re: for those who believe in a god (any god)

Quote:
Originally posted by indra
You can't prove there is a god (or gods) any more than I can prove there isn't/aren't. Essentially it comes down to belief.

So my question is:

Do you find the belief in a god or supreme being the creator of the universe more acceptable/comforting than sheer dumb luck (for want of a better way of stating it -- and also 'cause I'm feeling cheeky this evening)? If so, why?


(I can "prove" my belief to me, and you can "prove" your belief to yourself, but we aren't going to change each other's minds, so I'm not looking for essays on why there is or isn't a god/gods. I'm more interested in what belief does for you, if that makes sense.)
Well I think it is bad science to say sheer dumb luck and random chance. All faith aside. It just doesn't gel with the fundementals of Physics.
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
My question is: how can you find any comfort in sheer dumb luck?

And my comfort doesn't come from knowing God as simply the Almighty Creator. Knowing that He knows me, cares for me and loves me, and was willing to die for me overwhelms me with comfort.

why do we need comfort from anything?

can't we create comfort through the maintenance of relationships wtih family and friends, armed with the knowledge that all we've got is each other? would this not be more powerful and empowering than the idea of God, since it is of your creation, from blankness you've created love?
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:22 AM   #21
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Not everyone has comfort from family and friends and even if you do, it's sad to think as you all die off you will never see each other again. It's comforting to know you will in eternity.
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
can't we create comfort through the maintenance of relationships wtih family and friends, armed with the knowledge that all we've got is each other? would this not be more powerful and empowering than the idea of God, since it is of your creation, from blankness you've created love?
Think about that. People are imperfect. There are plenty of hurts created by a breakdown in relationship with family and friends.

My comfort through a relationship with Jesus Christ is far more powerful as He is perfect and unchanging.
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Think about that. People are imperfect. There are plenty of hurts created by a breakdown in relationship with family and friends.

My comfort through a relationship with Jesus Christ is far more powerful as He is perfect and unchanging.

i find loving imperfect people to be very powerful; that's what we need, to be loved by others despite our shortcomings. ideally, that's what our parents should do (but, sadly, many don't). still, why do you need comfort like that? why do you demand perfect, unchanging love?

it also strikes me that your characterizations of christ sound very parent-child, like what every child would demand of a parent -- be perfect! don't change!

we could slip into easy Freudian analysis ... but i have issues with Freud myself on other topics. but that aspect of some conceptions of God -- the perfect parent -- does strike me as fufilling some kind of deep psychological longing.
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:42 AM   #24
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Hey indra, good question. For me, belief is not a good enough word. You believe in Santa Claus. Even the devil believes in God. To me it's about knowing God. Now does that mean I know everything about him? Of course not. However, I can tell you I feel his presence at times. I see him working in my life. I feel his Holy Spirit within me. I (try to) talk to him daily and hear him speak to me through his word and otherwise. It's a relationship. I don't believe in my dad, I know him. The same goes for my heavenly father. And, the cool thing is, he wants this relationship with everyone of us, including all of us on this thread! He sent his son to die in our place for the sins we've committed, and all we have to do is make the next move by saying, "Yes, I accept the sacrifice, I'm sorry for my sins and I give my life to you." That's it! As you turn your life over to him, you'll see the relationship grow. I know you didn't want an essay, and I'm sorry if this is becoming that. Also, I know it sounds like a bunch of trite bunk to people out there, but the biggest proof of God for me is my relationship with him and how he's changed my life dramatically. My hope is that others will let him do the same.
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Old 01-20-2005, 10:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
I don't believe in my dad, I know him. The same goes for my heavenly father.
I like this. I see God as family member, not just a theoretical blanket of comfort for when things go wrong.
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Old 01-20-2005, 11:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



My comfort through a relationship with Jesus Christ is far more powerful as He is perfect and unchanging.

also, just food for thought -- is God perfect? is Jesus perfect? or do you simply believe that He is perfect, and then wrap all your interpretations of life around that central idea, so that it becomes a closed, circular, self-reinforcing system?

like the Bible? you start out with the assumption that it is perfect, and therefore, all is interpreted to reinforce the original assumption.

where is this external evidence of perfection that created the original assumption?
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Old 01-20-2005, 10:49 PM   #27
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Thanks to everyone who posted here. I've really enjoyed reading the responses, they are what I was looking for. This is a discussion forum (sometimes even a heated discussion forum ) -- which is great -- but what I was looking for (and got. Thank again!) was more how you feel than the more hard edged discussions (hence the "what does it do for you" line. That wasn't meant to insult btw -- it was just a clumsy way of express what I was looking for).
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Old 01-20-2005, 11:05 PM   #28
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Glad you are genuinely interested in where we are coming from, Indra.
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:44 AM   #29
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Re: Re: for those who believe in a god (any god)

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Originally posted by cardosino


AS an Engineer by trade, I find it infuriating that I can't just run the experiment to prove it to non-believers, but it's beyond doubt in my mind.
The alternative, that God does not exist, is beyond doubt in my mind.

It's the huge philosophical question that will never be answered.

Tolerance must exist however, and politicians who manifest their belief or disbelief in God should not be politicians.
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Old 01-21-2005, 02:01 AM   #30
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Politicians will act according to their character and belief or lack thereof is an inseperable part of their character.
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