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Old 04-29-2005, 02:05 AM   #1
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For or Against or In Between

We take black and white sides on issues when there are so many greys. I have a pretty good idea what side many people here fall on if it is a simple one side or the other question, but I was curious how many people really fall into the grey areas.

Questions:

Abortion. How many are for choice under all conditions? How
many against it under all conditions. How many think say that
abortion should be allowable without limit during the first
trimester, but the state may have more say in later trimesters.


Gay marriage, civil unions, or uh-uh no way. And if both sides are
agreeable to civil unions, should it be restricted or allowed for
consenting adults of either sexual orientation who are not
sexual partners, but for other reasons wish to have a nonfamily
member the recipient of the benefits of civil union or common-
law--inheritance, making medical decisions, sharing finances,
health insurance, without power of attorney, which has its own
problems.

It's 5 am my time and I'm tired, so these are the most obvious
issues I can come up with. Please feel free to add more grey areas if you are interested. I'm curious who falls in between.
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Old 04-29-2005, 03:04 AM   #2
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I am for abortion rights, I am for gay marriage, I am for capital punishment for war criminals and crimes against humanity but not individual rapists or murderers, I think that pacifism is useless against an amoral foe.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:50 AM   #3
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1. full abortion rights, no parental-consent laws, it should also be covered by health insurance as should birth control. schools should offer comprehensive sex education and we need to empower young women to think of themselves as more than seminal recepticals and in full control of their bodies, they get to choose when and if they have sex, as well as when and if they get pregnant. reproductive control is the *only* thing that enables societies to rise out of crippling poverty, and access to brith control and abortion-on-demand in 3rd world nations should be a priority.

and i never want another abortion to happen ever again. abortion is a symptom of a larger problem, but the way to solve that problem is not to outlaw this one symptom.

2. full marriage rights for heterosexuals and homosexuals, let's call it "marriage equality." however, for now, and because i fear a republican winning in 2008 and, frankly, because so many states do not have a terribly sophistocated citizenry (yes, i do believe that ... i think acceptance of homosexuality is predicated upon sophistocation, that is you interact with people different from you on a regular basis ... being sophistocated does not mean you are a good or a bad person, it's just about your comfort level with difference and diversity), it does seem like civil unions is a first step on the way to full marriage rights.

straight people need it to save the institution of marriage, gay people need it to, in some cases, literally save their lives as the goal of marraige will give structure, meaning, and purpose to their loves and relationships.
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:08 AM   #4
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Abortion - Against, except in RARE cases where someone's life is at risk or the girl is a minor who was raped or a victim of incest. In these cases, a Dr. should help make the call.

Gay Marriage - For

Gay People Adopting/Fostering Kids - For

Death Penalty - Against
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:29 AM   #5
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Abortion - Against, except either to save the life of the mother, or in the case of incest/rape. The every child is a hunted child philosophy doesn't do it for me.

Gay Marriage - Against the government endorsing the behavior, but banning gay books and authors is uncalled for, so are anti-sodomy laws.

Death Penalty - Used to be for it, seeing it is a punishment suitable for the crime, but innocent people do get executed. More time should be spent perfecting the prison system, which inspired Europe to take steps towards more humane punishments. Exceptions for war criminals and crimes against humanity.

Gun Rights - Pro-second Amendment, but also for background checks and waiting periods. Locks on guns defeat the purpose of owning one, and gives the victimizer an advantage in the event of a premeditated attack.
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:37 AM   #6
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Abortion- totally against for reasons of convenience only. I make exceptions for rape or incest (morning after pill, hey, you know when this happened), extreme deformities or condition in which fetus could not survive or would be so severely mentally and/or physically incapable that it would cause an extreme financial and emotional hardship on the family (talking VERY severe here, not ordinary handicaps), or threat to the mother's life. NO 'partial birth' abortion in ANY case for ANY reason, this is sick, this is infantcide.

Gay Marriage- I really don't care, marry who you want, I don't see how it could harm anyone else.

Death Penalty- Yes, for EXTREME cases of murder and cruelty such as child killers who rape and mutilate first, or someone like Scott Peterson who kills his pregnant wife on Christmas Eve, or dangerous serial killers. These people do not deserve their lives after they have robbed others intentionally in such ways. I don't think something like one shooting in a heat of the moment robbery or holdup is enough to warrant the death penalty, but life behind bars.

Guns- I hate guns, I hate hunting. However, I don't believe the government should take them away from people.
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Old 04-29-2005, 08:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Abortion - Against, except either to save the life of the mother, or in the case of incest/rape. The every child is a hunted child philosophy doesn't do it for me.

Gay Marriage - Against the government endorsing the behavior, but banning gay books and authors is uncalled for, so are anti-sodomy laws.

Death Penalty - Used to be for it, seeing it is a punishment suitable for the crime, but innocent people do get executed. More time should be spent perfecting the prison system, which inspired Europe to take steps towards more humane punishments. Exceptions for war criminals and crimes against humanity.

Gun Rights - Pro-second Amendment, but also for background checks and waiting periods. Locks on guns defeat the purpose of owning one, and gives the victimizer an advantage in the event of a premeditated attack.
ok here we are.

abortion? here is a very insightful article ive read on the issue. the author brings up valid arguments and defends his case zealously.

here is an excrept if youre feeling really lazy:

"I have a different stance on abortion: I'm against abortion, but for killing babies. That way everyone loses, and I win. I'm neither pro choice, nor pro life; I'm pro you-shutting-the-hell-up. The only way I'd be "pro choice" is if it meant I could choose which babies I could abort, and only then if I could lift the age restriction to 80."

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=regressive

gay marriage. gay marriage should be banned. actually, all marriage should be banned. people should be allowed to sleep around with anyone they like, unless i say otherwise. this way, there will be more jealous wife-husband murders etc. this will promote chaos in community and the world will be better off.

death penalty. for death penalty, but id like it to be renamed as 'late-abortion' so abortion laws will be bundled with the criminal law system. death penalty will be imposed on people i dont like. actually, everyone will have the right to terminate anyone they dont like. the government have the biggest guns so you cant terminate it.

gun rights. for it. we will close down toy factories and turn them into gun factories to cheapen the gun prices, because they are mostly inaccessible to the youth right now. gun fighting will be taught in primary schools, and high school students will be educated on the use of artillery and anti-aircraft guns. freshmen college students will get nuclear bomb building as a mandatory course. in our world, everyone will have guns and licence to kill, so that when everyone is dead i can rule the world by myself, without having to bother with elections and what not.

welcome to a new age. join us, for an apocalyptic future.












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Old 04-29-2005, 08:33 AM   #8
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ooh, forgot the others.


3. gay adoption -- could not be more in favor, and i hope to adopt one day.

4. death penalty -- i'm agnostic as to it's morality, i simply don't think it's an effective means of controling crime. no one ever thinks they are going to get caught, so i don't think that the death penalty is at all a deterrant. also, with the possibility that innocent people could be killed, i simply cannot support it. however, i don't lose sleep over some of the worst case scenario people being put to death. it's the system surrounding the punishment that i think is wrong, not necessarily the punishment itself.

4. guns -- i've never touched a gun and don't ever plan on it. i support all measures of gun control, but i don't think they should be completely outlawed. i'd also support mandatory education classes before someone can purchase a gun -- heck, i attended nearly 30 hours of classes and training before i could get a SCUBA certification, i don't see why firearm training should be any different.
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Old 04-29-2005, 08:53 AM   #9
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1) Abortion. Frankly, I don't care.

2) Gay marriage. 100% for.

3) Lumping "gay marriage" and "abortion" in the same breath: a ticket to getting me infuriated.

4) Heterosexual marriage. 100% against. The government should not endorse such wicked behavior. The lesson of Genesis 4 is that one man + one woman = evil! Adam meets Eve, then gets thrown out of the garden of Eden and their firstborn is a murderer! Then this "generational sin" keeps on getting passed on, and these dirty heterosexuals then end up on "Maury Povich" wondering "who their baby daddy" is. I'm sorry, if you don't know after 6 DNA tests, maybe you and your "baby" don't deserve to know. Anyway, what's the culmination of "one man + one woman"? An entire wicked planet that God destroys in a flood, minus Noah and his family. Fuck "Sodom and Gomorrah"; God so hated his heterosexual planet that he destroyed it and started over.

5) Gay adoption. Hey, at least they work to love their children, which is more than I can say for a certain dominant sexuality, where it's up in the air.

6) Death penalty. Generally against it.

7) Guns. Generally ambivalent, but aware of the 2nd Amendment.

8) Sarcasm/satire. Very much in favor of it. The dryer, the better.

Melon
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:20 AM   #10
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1. Abortion —*totally against. A baby's heart starts beating about 25 days after conception. Many women don't even know their pregnant then. Days later they have brain waves and soon after that they can feel pain. I've also seen the devastation it creates for a woman. My wife had one before we met.

2. Death Penalty —*totally against. It's been proven to be racist, not a deterrent, more costly to society and it often doesn't bring any peace to the victim's families.

3. Gay Marriage —*I'm on the fence about supporting civil unions.

4. Gay Adoption — I'm sure there are loving gay people out there, but I have to wonder what the effects are of a child growing up with homosexual parents or gaurdians.

5. Guns —*It's been said that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." So why do we give people guns? I don't like hunting or any of that stuff, but I know there's people who are into it. I guess I'm alright with guns for that, but we don't need handguns that can be concealed.
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:07 AM   #11
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1. Abortion: Ditto Irvine's answer to this totally.
2. Gay marriage: Should be 100% legal, and should be called a marriage, seeing as the gay couple goes through the exact same process a straight couple goes through. Besides, there's that whole "pursuit of happiness" thing we're all guaranteed to in this country, and by denying gays the chance to get legally married, we're denying them the right to do something that makes them happy. Especially considering that they aren't hurting anybody by getting married.
3. Gays adopting: If a gay couple is willing to love, clothe, feed, and shelter a child, I see no justifiable reason why they should be denied the opportunity to raise the kid. It's been proven that kids who grow up in homosexual households turn out just fine. And they're not more likely to be gay, either-if that were the case, by that logic, we'd assume that every child who grows up in a heterosexual household will be more likely to be heterosexual, and that's not always true. They still have about the same chance of being straight or gay as they do in a heterosexual household. And besides that, what orientation they lean towards shouldn't be anyone's concern to begin with.
4. Death penalty: Against it. It's not a deterrent to crime, innocent people have been mistakenly put to death, there's the whole racism avenue that was pointed out, too. For serious criminals like murderers, rapists, molesters, and people along that line, I think a much more unpleasant punishment for them is to let them sit in a jail cell for the rest of their lives with no possibility of parole. And no special privileges, either-they're there to be punished, after all.
5. Guns: I'm on both sides of the fence on this issue. While I've never touched a gun and have no desire to, I also think that a flat out ban on guns won't solve the problems we have regarding them in this country. Plus, that's not fair to those out there who own guns and are responsible with them. But at the same time, I think it's rather unnecessary for your average citizen to own an assault rifle or something along that line. And I also think the NRA is full of nutcases.

Angela
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:26 AM   #12
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the "guns" topic wasn't added till after I posted, so....

Guns: the only place where I'm "in between". I don't see the need for joe-blow to own any type of assault weapon or any concealed weapon. If there really need to be rights for people to have militias and what not, then maybe they should be required to present their registered weapons to some gov't office once a year or so just to make sure everything's still in the right hands and legally owned/registered. Hunting/sporting weapons should require an extensive screening process and should be kept in a certified, locked case (so they can't be stolen by deranged teen agers or picked up by curious children).
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
Abortion - Against, except in RARE cases where someone's life is at risk or the girl is a minor who was raped or a victim of incest. In these cases, a Dr. should help make the call.

Gay Marriage - For

Gay People Adopting/Fostering Kids - For

Death Penalty - Against
Agreed - I have the same responses.

I'm against the ownership of guns, although I have an extremely subjective opinion on this because of personal experience.
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:39 AM   #14
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Abortion--Morally opposed to it, but don't want to make it illegal. That would just drive it underground into the back alleys.

Gay marriage: I support same-sex civil unions, I see no reason why the state can't unite two committed adults.

Gays adopting: Absolutely

Guns: I don't really like them, but let responsible people own them.
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:54 AM   #15
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a) Abortion - I don't like it. I am personally against it but I don't agree that a woman's right to choose should be taken from her. Even if it were, backstreet abortions would take place anyway, and that would be even worse. So yeah, I dont like them, but I support the right for women to have them. I also believe that some reforms considering sex education policy should be put in place; the causes of abortion should be tackled.

b) Gay marriage - completely for it. No grey areas there.

c) Gay people adopting - completely for it, again.

d) Death penalty - against it, though I understand why people support it. I am against it as a matter of principle; I think people who would warrant a death penalty have committed a most severe crime, and, therefore, death would be too good for them. I prefer severe prison sentences, strict prison conditions and methods of incarceration.

e) Guns - I am completely and passionately against it. It is my firm belief that civilians have no place owning weapons. Period. I dont believe you can have a 'safe' society where people have access to guns. I also don't accept the notion that responsible people should own them. Who decides the level of responsibility? It seems that unless you're a blatant mental defective, you are 'responsible', and I don't agree. There are many competent and responsible people who commit crime everyday, I don't think they should be given guns to assist them with their crimes.


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