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Old 05-03-2005, 07:26 AM   #121
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i have been careful. evidently, i was too careful. from now on, i am going to use the terms of the debate as i understand them and will ignore hysterical reactions.

Oh, I think you got exactly the reaction you were hoping for, and that you did it on purpose. You still kept throwing it into your posts, even after the discussions of it became heated.

To everytthing Macphistowannabe said!
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Old 05-03-2005, 07:27 AM   #122
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Thankee.
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Old 05-03-2005, 07:28 AM   #123
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:44 AM   #124
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


Oh, I think you got exactly the reaction you were hoping for, and that you did it on purpose. You still kept throwing it into your posts, even after the discussions of it became heated.


firstly, don't put thoughts into my head.

i had consistently used "anti-choice/pro-life" specifically for you, because i wanted to prevent a hysterical post you've become famous for. i prefer the term anti-choice, which you're free to disagree with, but included "pro-life" in order to round it out a bit and to toss you the proverbial bone.

from now on, because you have no interest in even having a discussion, i will frame the debate around the issue of "choice." if you believe abortion should be outlawed, you are therefore "anti-choice." if you believe that women should retain their abortion rights, you are therefore "pro-choice." i believe it is possible to be anti-abortion, yet still pro-choice, because to me, the issue centers on the legality of abortion, not it's morality.

that's how i understand the debate, and that's how i will discuss it.

any rants you'd like to embark upon regarding my choice of terminology will be read, but not responded to.
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:47 AM   #125
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If you really wanted to avoid my 'hysterical posts' you wouldn't have used it at all, and why add 'pro life' for 'me'? I already told you I don't agree with that term, either. Pro and anti abortion are the best terms to describe the positions, and the only ones I consider valid.

Calling me 'anti choice' just as a political statement is not only ignorant but inaccurate, since killing is about the ONLY choice I don't believe a person should have, well, that or robbery. I don't even think people should kill animals. But you don't hurt anybody or mess with their shit, and I really don't care what else you do.

The 'legality' is very much a factor in these debates, and I don't believe it should ever have been legalized other than for medical reasons. Where is this 'right to privacy' in the constitution? I'm sure that's never what they meant by that. We sure aren't free to do a lot of things in the privacy of our own homes, so it's bullshit. I can't even decide for myself if I have to wear a seat belt in the privacy of my own vehicle. So it's shit, it's grabbing at straws, it's hollow and, really, nonexistent.

As 80s mentioned, it's legal to hurt or kill your wife in some countries, does that make it okay? Just because someone 'chooses' to do something does not make it all right. At one time, slavery was legal, and its opponents sounded just like the pro abortion people of today, and the abolitionists were looked at much the same as the anti abortion activists of recent times, religious zealots sticking their noses into other peoples' lives. Thankfully, good won out over evil there, and hopefully someday people will see how totally sick and evil abortion is one day too.
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:49 AM   #126
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then we have a different understanding of the debate.

i will no longer seek to accomodate your viewpoint since you have no interest in hearing viewpoints different from your own. i am sorry i tried to meet you halfway.
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:53 AM   #127
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Originally posted by Irvine511
then we have a different understanding of the debate.

i will no longer seek to accomodate your viewpoint since you have no interest in hearing viewpoints different from your own. i am sorry i tried to meet you halfway.
I hear them, but if I know in my heart they are wrong, I cannot and will not ever accept them or respect them.
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:55 AM   #128
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Old 05-03-2005, 10:10 AM   #129
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


I hear them, but if I know in my heart they are wrong, I cannot and will not ever accept them or respect them.


sounds like what Philip Roth refers to as "America's oldest communal passion ... the ecstasy of sanctimony."
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Old 05-07-2005, 08:49 PM   #130
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I don't know how you can label someone who is anti-abortion as anti-choice. anti-choice would be precluding people from making a lot of choices in thier lives. When you say anit-choice(I really don't mean to be degrading to at all) it seems as though it is more politically motivated than issue oriented. Saying A-C makes people against abortion seem opressive and intolerant of other people. I don't think this is the case. I don't see myself as anti-chioce. I am all for people's choice to have sex. And an unintended pregnancy is not punishment, its a consequence. Whether or not your going to be a terrible parent does not mean the baby should be aborted. I have known plenty of people with "bad" parents. They are great people, and I'm glad they are alive and thier parents didn't decide to not have them becuase they couldn't do thier jobs or fufill thier responsibiltes. Again I'm not trying to sound hysterical or intetolerant of other views. Just my personal opinon.
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Old 05-07-2005, 09:08 PM   #131
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I am so sorry I started this thread.
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Old 05-07-2005, 11:04 PM   #132
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all abortion-related threads turn out like this.
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Old 05-08-2005, 03:51 AM   #133
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Warning received, Irvine. I don't have very many emotional trigger issues so I often step into a minefield when all I am looking for is a rational discussion. It amazes me how everything almost always degenerates into the personal. How unbelievably easy it is to offend someone--a wrong word, a miscommunication, a belief that an opinion is an attack. Wow. I don't want to stay that sheltered. Then again. that was a growing process, a learning process for me too. I had to be trained out of defensiveness. I had to learn not to identify myself with my opinions. They are a part of me; but they're not me.

Maybe somebody (not me, I'm not stepping in that minefield) should start a thread questioning why anybody would be hurt by what a stranger says about your opinions on the internet. Affection and antipathy develop during the conversations, but on a whole, the people you discuss things with are not your friends, your family, your partners. They aren't people who have any effect on your life whatsoever.

I've got my own issues, but what people on the internet think of me isn't one of them. I'm bewildered why so many people take all of this personally.

Taking a line from a comedy way back, "You don't know me well enough to hurt me."
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Old 05-08-2005, 04:04 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
...
I've got my own issues, but what people on the internet think of me isn't one of them. I'm bewildered why so many people take all of this personally.

Taking a line from a comedy way back, "You don't know me well enough to hurt me."
On the contrary, to walk a mile in someone else's shoes is applicable. We never really know what life other people on this forum, or anywhere on the internet, are living. I don't believe many people on here care per se what others think, but their words might very well act as a trigger.
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Old 05-08-2005, 10:17 PM   #135
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Threads on the most controversial subjects, especially abortion unfortunately demand some amount of political correctness. I'd never label someone "anti-life" unless it was Communist China, just as I dislike the label "anti-choice", also suitable for Communist China. The terms hardly add up, even the most politically correct terms. I suppose this is where I may agree with Irvine. Many "pro-lifers" support the death penalty, whereas many "pro-choicers" aren't so fond of freely distributed firearms. I think the safest labels are probably "supporters" and "opposers." But what do I know, that might offend someone as well.
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