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Old 05-01-2005, 05:52 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Liberals are well-known for advocating numerous personal freedoms, yet when it comes to personal responsibilities, Charles Manson is capable of doing a better job. The abortion issue is a great example, as is the death penalty. They're quick to defend the life of someone who caused great grief on the community, but when it comes to innocent life, they couldn't care less. 80s is right on the money - sex is a big responsibility which could lead to an even bigger responsibility - a human life. Stopping a beating heart is killing. Period. Make abortion illegal, and stop blaming sex ed, and start taking accountability for your own actions. I wouldn't shed a tear for those vicious enough to seek back alley abortions, and refuse to sympathize for their own stupidity.

oh, Mac: stop with the Ann Coulterisms and mocking the very thoughtful arguments that have been put forth here.
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Old 05-01-2005, 05:56 PM   #77
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Here's the answer, then; people need to straighten their crap out. People need to start loving their kids and if that's not possible, give them to people who will love them.

Miscreants and other irresponsible people just need to stop having sex.

Sex is a big responsibility as it can lead to a bigger responsibility - a new human life.


firstly, let me say that no abortion has EVER come from gay sex. so, here's to gay sex!!!

now, more seriously, i generally agree with your first point, however America likes to adopt white, healthy males. babies born with AIDS, addicted to crack, with fetal alcohol syndrome ... these kids are not so wanted by your average American couple. and let's also not forget the extremes that people go to in order to have a child of their "own." such money would be better spent on adoption.

your second point might sound good coming out of the mouth of a preacher or politician, but how are you going to go about this? "stop having sex." is that realistic? how do you propose to encourage this? how do you know who is a miscreant? how do you know who is irresponsible?
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Old 05-01-2005, 05:59 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

how do you know who is irresponsible?
Since sex can lead to children, if a person isn't responsible enough to care for a child, he/she isn't responsible enough to have sex.
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Old 05-01-2005, 06:03 PM   #79
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Originally posted by earthshell
it's not murder. it's women's rights. look it up.
What do I need to look up? If it is the intentional termination of an innocent human life, it's murder, and I don't acre if you do call it "women's rights". In some countries, it is legal for a man to beat his wife if she doesn't wear a veil. Are you going to call that "man's rights"? Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right. Speaking of looking up, why don't you go read a detailed fetal development chart.
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Old 05-01-2005, 06:07 PM   #80
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Since sex can lead to children, if a person isn't responsible enough to care for a child, he/she isn't responsible enough to have sex.


i generally agree with you.

however, how much compassion do you have for those who slip up? who give in to temptation? who simply make mistakes? who try to be responsible about birth control but things happen?

i'm not saying that, by definition, these are reasons to have an abortion. what i am saying is that good people with good intentions make mistakes, and sometimes bad things happen to good people.

i think sex is a very slippery subject. it is an instinct, and it takes effort to control it. no, no one has to have sex, but living a life of celibacy is not a terribly healthy thing to do. i have sympathy for people when they make mistakes, i really do. as a correlatory, i don't think that anyone "deserves" an STD, or god forbid HIV, simply because they screw up and have unprotected sex. yes, those are the consequences and they should know that, but humans are fallable, people screw up, and people make mistakes for millions of reasons.

i suppose that i'm still hung up on what i see is a punishment ethos. that deeds have consequences, and you must live with the consequences -- you know, eat too many happy meals and you'll get fat; start smoking cigarettes and you'll get addicted.

i just don't think a pregnancy, and a birth, should be viewed as a "price" to pay.
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Old 05-01-2005, 06:25 PM   #81
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Nope. Our "fixation on the law" is an attempt to take a stand against a government officially condoning murder.
Then I guess I find it hypocritical when those same "Christian organizations" are equally zealous in their support for the death penalty.

Personally, like I've said, I'm split on the issue of abortion into some horribly ambiguous mess. It's not my #1 issue.

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Old 05-01-2005, 07:18 PM   #82
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Abortion-against. I am for sex ed and all the available info and birth control in the world, but let's face it, everyone over 8 years old knows where babies come from and this isn't stopping people from irresponsible sex. I don't believe an innocent child should have to die for this. (common exceptions of course)

Gay marriage- why not?

Gay adoption- case by case basis, isn't that how it works for straights too?

Guns- if guns were outlawed only outlaws would own guns

drugs- legalize and regulate

euthanasia- yes, IF the person is coherent or has left a legal document. No more Terri Schiavo fiascos, I disagreed with that.
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Old 05-01-2005, 09:54 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



oh, Mac: stop with the Ann Coulterisms and mocking the very thoughtful arguments that have been put forth here.
That's your argument? Oh, man!
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Old 05-01-2005, 09:57 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by earthshell
it's not murder. it's women's rights. look it up.
I didn't search "women's rights", but I searched for "abortion." Buzzwords can rape your mind.


*image removed by Sicy. Too graphic for this forum.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:07 PM   #85
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I would insist that that image is removed, I hardly think that it adds to the argument.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:08 PM   #86
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I would insist that that image is removed, I hardly think that it adds to the argument.
I would insist that the image stays. No sense in censoring reality.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:39 PM   #87
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Thank you Sicy.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:46 PM   #88
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Are we going to remove images from the Iraq war as well?
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:49 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seabird
Guns- if guns were outlawed only outlaws would own guns

euthanasia- yes, IF the person is coherent or has left a legal document. No more Terri Schiavo fiascos, I disagreed with that.
I agree 100% to both of these points.
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Old 05-02-2005, 12:10 AM   #90
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euthanasia- yes, IF the person is coherent or has left a legal document. No more Terri Schiavo fiascos, I disagreed with that.
Poor people in Terri Shiavo's condition get unplugged on a regular basis. In Texas, a law signed by Dubya himself when he was governor authorizes hospitals to unplug Medicaid patients if they are deemed "hopeless" and can be done even against the guardian's wishes. Terri just happened to be "lucky" in that she had hundreds of thousands of dollars from a malpractice suit at her disposal.

Less than six months before Terri Shiavo, a poverty-level black woman fought in vain to prevent her child from being unplugged, and Texas state courts sided with the hospital. She didn't have the funds for endless appeals like the Schindlers/Shiavos. As such, she didn't have even remotely the amount of press coverage.

People in this situation got unplugged before Terri and they will continue to be unplugged after. Unless, of course, we want to raise our taxes to take care of the thousands upon thousands of people of all ages who end up in Terri's situation each year.

There's an ethical debate rolling on as to whether we should start putting in feeding tubes into the thousands of newborns each year born solely with a brain stem, so we can harvest their organs. It is such a substantial amount that it is said that our transplant needs would be more than fulfilled if we did this to these newborns. As it stands, these babies die of starvation--just like Terri did--within a week.

The cruel fact remains that these people exist, and there's nothing that can be done to save them. Thankfully, having no cerebral cortex means having no consciousness and no pain.

Melon
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