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Old 06-09-2005, 09:50 AM   #16
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Re: For Melon and Irvine

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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Melon and Irvine,

First I want to apologize to both of you for the times I have replied in anger toward you. I don't reach the level that some do, calling people names (and no I'm not talking about you two), but I do go off on angry rants, and invariably, it makes me feel bad when I do that.

Secondly, I'd like to tell you that I have come to an understanding that I didn't have at the beginning of our battles. While I still believe that homosexual relationships are wrong, I can now say that since you don't believe it is, I can understand why you would be so mad at conservative politicians. My equally conservative Christian friend has helped guide me to that realization. She has has this amazing ability to step into other people's shoes, which is a quality I lack. The truth is that if I thought my rights were being denied, I'd be mad, also.

The above is commendable

I am glad your friend was able to help you with empathy.

I have always believed you to be a very decent person. I see you as one who lives in a very conservative environment where your views may be more tolerant than many of the people you associate with, I could be wrong.

I have many close friends and members in my immediate family the are conservative Christians. They say and believe things that are very intolerant. In discussions with them I ask them to elaborate. Often times they hesitate to reply, when the mirror is held up from a different perspective.

The problem with Conservative Christians is that they are the ones that are responsible for the Conservative politicians that you seem to have no problem disagreeing with.

Believe me I understand what I am talking about because for two thirds of my life I was in your group and made what I believed, at the time, were convincing arguments. I thought life was simple then, right or wrong, good or evil, that there was an absolute line that could be drawn on just about everything.

I sincerely commend your intentions with this thread and hope anything I wrote will not be construed as an attack.
I don’t expect you or anyone to agree with everything I post, but it is constructive when we can dialogue.
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:15 AM   #17
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Re: Re: For Melon and Irvine

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Originally posted by deep

I am glad your friend was able to help you with empathy.
Thanks very much. She actually helps me see a lot of things I would have difficulty seeing otherwise. She is a good influence on me.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep

I have always believed you to be a very decent person. I see you as one who lives in a very conservative environment where your views may be more tolerant than many of the people you associate with, I could be wrong.
Truth is that most of my friends are very tolerant. I'm more of a "finger-wagger" than some of my friends, especially my female friend that helps me so much. This may be hard for some people to believe, but in my real life, my "finger-wagging" is usually reserved for preachers who preach what I believe to be false doctrine. False doctrine irks me to no end, and I have been known to leave churches because of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
I sincerely commend your intentions with this thread and hope anything I wrote will not be construed as an attack.
I don’t expect you or anyone to agree with everything I post, but it is constructive when we can dialogue.
I really appreciate your kind words, especially since you and I have had our little tiffs. I also appreciate the barf bag you gave me in that other thread!
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:20 AM   #18
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Thanks all for your kind words. I really hope I can keep these things I have written in my heart so that next time I get upset, I can use them to help me cool off and gain perspective.

For those who didn't know, I've left FYM before because i couldn't keep perspective, and everything made me angry. That was just putting a bandaid on the problem - treating the symptoms, but ignoring the cause.This time, I want to make an effort to face my faults head on and improve, rather than run away.
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Old 06-09-2005, 07:17 PM   #19
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Christianity just moved up a notch in my opinion.
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Old 06-10-2005, 08:26 AM   #20
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i don't have too much to add but that i appreciate, very much, 80's post and it makes me realize that what we have in common is far greater than what we do not.

thank you for your kind words.

i will only add that i tend to pounce on gay issues for two reasons: 1) i am still in the process of understanding and accepting myself, so this is a form of self-expression and identity creation ... i'm not like this in real life, and 2) i feel as if it is literally my job to be "out" and to put something of a human face on these issues in order to demonstrate, not just to the people who post but to the hundreds of lurkers who read but do not post, that gay people are people and that certain attitudes translate into actual political action that can have terrible consequences.

it can be hard to separate the person from the position, particularly on a forum like this where it's relatively anonymous, but 80's very honest and sincere post is helping me to do that.

thanks.
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:08 AM   #21
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wow, this is one of the few threads in FYM that Ive read without getting saddened by people lashing out at one another
It would be nice if peoples faiths didnt tear them apart so much
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Old 06-10-2005, 10:25 AM   #22
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I would say this thread brings meaning to the lyrics "one, but not the same". Though we all have differences of opinions and beliefs, deep down, everybody has something in common. An Irvine, I agree...all of us say things differently here than we would in person. I guess it is the dehumanizing aspect of technology.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:31 PM   #23
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a very healthy thread and not one easy to start!

Thank's 80's
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Old 06-10-2005, 02:39 PM   #24
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Yeah, this is a cool thread.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i appreciate, very much, 80's post and it makes me realize that what we have in common is far greater than what we do not.
Well said Irvine. And thank you for saying it.
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Old 06-11-2005, 05:19 AM   #26
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If only more threads, words, and conduct could be like this in this forum, maybe more people would visit it/want to stick around, etc. It would be a much more pleasant forum too.

It reminds me of a quote I just read from Bono in that book..

"But, you know, you don't have to be harmonious on everything -just one thing-to get along with someone"

Maybe that one thing includes everyone just taking a step back and trying to admit a fault/failing/overstatement/whatever or two
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Old 06-11-2005, 05:42 AM   #27
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I agree with everything everyone else has said, but want to wish 80s well in his ongoing journey of accepting something which is very difficult for him. I'm no Christian (by 'name') but honestly believe that God and Jesus would wish more for acceptance and love of all fellow man and his actions, whether we see it's truth or not, we must accept we are made differently but are all equal.

I think love, respect and acceptance must even transcend religion and our limited knowledge of God's purpose, and be something every single one of us should strive for.

I wish you well, 80s.
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Old 06-11-2005, 06:33 AM   #28
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To swallow your pride and say that Iam sorry takes alot of courage.(((Hugs))) to you.
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:46 AM   #29
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It can be very tough to accept an opinion that's drastically different from yours. Beliefs are an important motivating factor in your life, no matter what they are. When these are challenged it can be downright scary. I know this from personal experience; don't we all? It's so important to accept other people's viewpoints because we have to live and work with each other to constitute a society.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:08 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
It can be very tough to accept an opinion that's drastically different from yours. Beliefs are an important motivating factor in your life, no matter what they are. When these are challenged it can be downright scary. I know this from personal experience; don't we all? It's so important to accept other people's viewpoints because we have to live and work with each other to constitute a society.
Listening just listening takes so little effort,doesnt it.
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