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Old 09-01-2006, 03:55 PM   #181
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I never called it soft??
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Old 09-01-2006, 03:55 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
This is going now where. All of us think we are right in our thinking. Some would rather let murders live for 60 years while some of us want them dead now.

But the difference is, we have reasoning. You keep avoiding the issue of not having an absolute system yet having an absolute penalty.

This is the difference.
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Old 09-01-2006, 03:56 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Some would rather let murders live for 60 years while some of us want them dead now.
Some of us would rather let murderers live for 60 years IN PRISON.
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Old 09-01-2006, 03:58 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Some would rather let murders live for 60 years while some of us want them dead now
I really don't care what happens to the guilty..kill 'em for all I care. But how do you propose to protect those incorrectly convicted. Feels like they come pretty low down on your list of considerations.
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Old 09-01-2006, 03:58 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
while some of us want them dead now.

Sounds like revenge.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:01 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by adrball


But how do you propose to protect those incorrectly convicted. Feels like they come pretty low down on your list of considerations.
None of those that support DP have addressed this, because honestly they can't.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:01 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
This is going now where. All of us think we are right in our thinking. Some would rather let murders live for 60 years while some of us want them dead now.

"HOW would we achieve what you're proposing? At the tactical level." Fix the Government first.
No, I'm trying to see where you're coming from, but you're not giving us anything to work with!

"fix the government first" - that's not a tactical plan. What does that mean? How does that work?
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:01 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by adrball


So I do I agree or disagree with the Death Penalty? Well you are either INNOCENT or GUILTY (not found innocent or guilty, but 'actually' guilty, And from the outcome you can either be FREED, get LIFE SENTENCE or get DEATH PENALTY. So there are 6 possible outcomes.

1. Innocent and Freed
2. Guilty and Life Sentence
3. Guilty and Death
4. Guilty and Freed
5. Innocent and Death
6. Innocent and Life Sentence

(1) Personally I really happy if they are innocent and freed!
(2/3) If there are guilty I don't really care what happens to this scum.
(4) Guilty and freed I'm uncomfortable about...what happens if they reoffend? But this a question about the effectiveness of the jury process and not whether you in favour or not of the death penalty.
(5)Innocent and Death. A nightmare outcome. An innocent person dying as a result of the death penalty is equally as bad as an innocent person dying as a result of a crime.
(6) Innocent and Life Sentence. So the jury get it wrong but at least they could be released at a later time.

So for me it's a question of balancing the risk of getting it wrong against being seen to punish the crime. Both Life and Death sentences are worthy punishment. But only by using the the life sentence exlusively do you give yourself the option of reversing an incorrect guilty verdict.

I'm against the death penalty for that reason.
I agree.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:05 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I never called it soft??
Page 7 of this thread: Diemen said his opposition to the death penalty doesn't mean he has a soft spot to criminals and you said it seems like he does if he doesn't want them to die.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:07 PM   #190
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The whole point is you went from the life sentence to being not tough enough to it's just as tough, "still a form of execution."
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:20 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I never called it soft??
Justin you are all over the place here. If your argument had any degree of sound logic, then maybe we would've gotten somewhere by now.

Quote:
Why not he took someone elses. I am not trying to play god.

...

HE played God HE TOOK SOMEONES LIFE!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Why shouldn't he suffer? Like he made a family or families suffer? He/she made his/her victims suffer.

...

IT IS NOT REVENGE!!!
Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
My opposition to the death penalty does not mean I have a soft spot for criminals.

Originally posted by Justin24
Well it seems like it if u dont want a person that took 1 life or many lives.

...

You judge some one to a life sentence is still a form of execution.
I'll spare you the rest of your contradictions, but I have this question: If, as you say, a life sentence is still a form of execution, then how on Earth could I possibly be soft on crime if I support life sentences?

Look, if down in your gut you feel that murderers should be killed, then fine, that's what you feel. But when you can't even debate it without contradicting yourself left and right, it doesn't exactly lend your position much credibility.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:24 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


Justin you are all over the place here. If your argument had any degree of sound logic, then maybe we would've gotten somewhere by now.







I'll spare you the rest of your contradictions, but I have this question: If, as you say, a life sentence is still a form of execution, then how on Earth could I possibly be soft on crime if I support life sentences?

Look, if down in your gut you feel that murderers should be killed, then fine, that's what you feel. But when you can't even debate it without contradicting yourself left and right, it doesn't exactly lend your position much credibility.


Summarizes many people's feelings here.
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:30 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


That's got to be the weakest argument I've ever heard.

The recidivism rate of life without parole criminals is also zero.
To reach that conclusion you have to,
A) not count crimes committed in prison and
B) conveniently forget about Willie Horton. Sentenced to life without parole in Massachusetts, Horton was released 10 times on weekend furloughs under then governor Michael Dukakis. The 10th time he committed a brutal rape and assault.

Which is why we need a death penalty. "Life without parole" unfortunately doesn't mean life without the possiblity of escape or without the possibility of someday electing a liberal governor who will set murderers free.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:00 PM   #194
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Originally posted by INDY500


To reach that conclusion you have to,
A) not count crimes committed in prison and
B) conveniently forget about Willie Horton. Sentenced to life without parole in Massachusetts, Horton was released 10 times on weekend furloughs under then governor Michael Dukakis. The 10th time he committed a brutal rape and assault.

Which is why we need a death penalty. "Life without parole" unfortunately doesn't mean life without the possiblity of escape or without the possibility of someday electing a liberal governor who will set murderers free.
So one example and now we should kill em all? Weak.

Crimes in prison happen, with or without the DP. Many by people who've never committed murder before. So where are you going to take that into account?
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:06 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

B) conveniently forget about Willie Horton. Sentenced to life without parole in Massachusetts, Horton was released 10 times on weekend furloughs under then governor Michael Dukakis. The 10th time he committed a brutal rape and assault.
If one man who got out and committed murder is your justification for the death penalty, then it should follow that one innocent man executed should be just as strong an argument against it.

Except there are far more examples of wrongfully accused and executed than there are of lifer's (without parole) who got out and killed again.

Nice partisan jab, btw.
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