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Old 03-24-2004, 02:59 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Mrs. Edge
It just seems to me that a perfect God creating an imperfect world and not being able (or willing) to get rid of the devil or suffering is an insurmountable contradiction. It all seems totally pointless. If God loves us that much he should treat everyone fairly.
We all get put on the same earth. Sounds fair to me.

We made the imperfect world. He can not controll us, we should start taking responsibility for the that we have created.

Quote:
Should charity have strings attached? Why can't we just meet their physical needs?
It's sad but every charity has strings attached, whether its a religious group or not. I've been involved with many charities such as MDA and they are not prefect by any meens.
We can't just meet the physical need, if someone is in emotion/spiritual pain their physical health will be affected.
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Old 03-24-2004, 03:43 PM   #77
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Originally posted by iacrobat
We are the wealthy NB.

How nice it is of us to identify that these people have some sort of spiritual problem and need saving.

Should charity have strings attached? Why can't we just meet their physical needs?
Really. They have their own religion they follow. Why do we need to try and convert them to ours?

Angela
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:57 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by agentmissa


It's sad but every charity has strings attached, whether its a religious group or not. I've been involved with many charities such as MDA and they are not prefect by any meens.
We can't just meet the physical need, if someone is in emotion/spiritual pain their physical health will be affected.
That's not what I meant.

Why must charity be given and at the same time conversion be attempted? I am not talking about psychological counselling.
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:58 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by iacrobat
How nice it is of us to identify that these people have some sort of spiritual problem and need saving.
You missed the point. Everyone needs a Savior.

Quote:
Originally posted by iacrobat
Should charity have strings attached? Why can't we just meet their physical needs?
No "strings" are attached. Missionaries serve both physical and spititual needs. What on earth is wrong with that?
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:07 PM   #80
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Originally posted by iacrobat


That's not what I meant.

Why must charity be given and at the same time conversion be attempted? I am not talking about psychological counselling.
I'm not to sure about that. But I'm guessing that they considder it somewhat of a kinda of psychological counselling. Sorry for not expanding on that the first time. Everyone has a choice to believe in it or not. If a charity is not giving the people they help that choice, they shouldn't be called a charity.
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:09 PM   #81
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


You missed the point. Everyone needs a Savior.



No "strings" are attached. Missionaries serve both physical and spititual needs. What on earth is wrong with that?
No, no. I get your point. I just don't agree. The image of myself travelling to Africa and telling a poor, black woman that she needs spiritual help disturbs me to the core.

What exactly does she need saving from more?

Her evil ways?

Or my addiction to consumption and perpetuation of a massive economic imbalance in the world?

She may not have any food, die of AIDS any time now, but at least her soul is saved. Thank the good lord.
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:10 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by agentmissa
We all get put on the same earth. Sounds fair to me.

We made the imperfect world. He can not controll us, we should start taking responsibility for the that we have created.
Some people are born in wealthy Western countries where they are likely to have access to healthcare, education and many other advantages. Some are born in countries where such basic necessities as safe food and water, nevermind education and healthcare, are not available to the average person. Doesn't sound too fair to me.

Also...if God is supposed to be all powerful then how does the sentence "he cannot control us" make sense? I admit to knowing next to nothing about religion so please forgive me if that's a stupid question.
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:15 PM   #83
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Originally posted by iacrobat
No, no. I get your point. I just don't agree. The image of myself travelling to Africa and telling a poor, black woman that she needs spiritual help disturbs me to the core.

What exactly does she need saving from more?

Her evil ways?

Or my addiction to consumption and perpetuation of a massive economic imbalance in the world?

She may not have any food, die of AIDS any time now, but at least her soul is saved. Thank the good lord.
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by iacrobat


No, no. I get your point. I just don't agree. The image of myself travelling to Africa and telling a poor, black woman that she needs spiritual help disturbs me to the core.

What exactly does she need saving from more?

Her evil ways?

Or my addiction to consumption and perpetuation of a massive economic imbalance in the world?

She may not have any food, die of AIDS any time now, but at least her soul is saved. Thank the good lord.
You also miss the point that the missionary provides for BOTH physical and spiritual needs.

Even if you don't believe she needs salvation (the spiritual need), why criticize the work of the missionary? Its not like Africa is overrun with athiest organizations meeting physical needs.
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:58 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by iacrobat

No, no. I get your point. I just don't agree. The image of myself travelling to Africa and telling a poor, black woman that she needs spiritual help disturbs me to the core.
They also provide education as well as spiritual help.
And to the other question:

Quote:
[i]
What exactly does she need saving from more?
Her evil ways?
No not evil ways- but rather ignorance, which is evil in a way.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:06 PM   #86
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Originally posted by sue4u2
No not evil ways- but rather ignorance, which is evil in a way.

Wow, that's so offensive.

I have a lot of family in Africa, Namibia to be exact. I would challenge those of you who believe these people are spiritually ignorant to go down and live with the Himba people, who will treat you more generously than you have been treated ever, and this in light of the West encroaching on their land and their diamonds. They will take you into your homes, they will sing and dance for you and feed you like an old friend. And they will look to the sky at night and find their salvation there.

They don't need saving, we probably need it more. I'm shocked anyone would label this ignorance.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:11 PM   #87
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Also...if God is supposed to be all powerful then how does the sentence "he cannot control us" make sense? I admit to knowing next to nothing about religion so please forgive me if that's a stupid question.
Ok, the way I look at it is he made us, the world... he made us free, free to feel, think, react. We may be influence by him, but not controlled like puppets by him. If he could controll us, why would he have people not believe in him? That is what I meant by he can not control us.

And to answer the question about the world being unjust. If he does not control us we can not blame God for the environment that we have allowed to develop.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:17 PM   #88
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Originally posted by anitram



Wow, that's so offensive.

I have a lot of family in Africa, Namibia to be exact. I would challenge those of you who believe these people are spiritually ignorant to go down and live with the Himba people, who will treat you more generously than you have been treated ever, and this in light of the West encroaching on their land and their diamonds. They will take you into your homes, they will sing and dance for you and feed you like an old friend. And they will look to the sky at night and find their salvation there.

They don't need saving, we probably need it more. I'm shocked anyone would label this ignorance.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:59 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Wow, that's so offensive.

I have a lot of family in Africa, Namibia to be exact. I would challenge those of you who believe these people are spiritually ignorant to go down and live with the Himba people, who will treat you more generously than you have been treated ever, and this in light of the West encroaching on their land and their diamonds. They will take you into your homes, they will sing and dance for you and feed you like an old friend. And they will look to the sky at night and find their salvation there.

They don't need saving, we probably need it more. I'm shocked anyone would label this ignorance.
Thank-you for that post.
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Old 03-24-2004, 08:44 PM   #90
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Well said, anitram. .

Angela
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