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iacrobat said:


Yes, you are misintepreting my post.

Why can't I cry out "just let the starving eat" and not have a result in 10 seconds?

So my comparison was only to point out the absurdity of attributing the "miracle" of a fixed computer to god, when so many larger problems exist and are waiting for a miracle. What kind of view of the world is this?
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Yes, OK, I see what you're saying and I think we are saying the same thing. That last statement quoted, I agree with entirely. My point is that I would never consider a printer being fixed a miracle anyway, like you said.

The only place where we disagree is that I DO think God has control over everything. Why he doesn't solve the huge problems, I don't have a good answer to. That's something everyone struggles with.
 
I don't think God controls everything (or, at least he pretends not to). During difficult times in my life, it was always famliy or friends that helped me. I suppose you could argue that God is acting through them, but i don't see why. I personally think that it was those people by themselves that helped me.

Likewise, with larger problems of poverty, God isn't going to solve all our problems. We have to do the work ourselves.
 
AcrobatMan said:
i will digress - can someone tell me why invariably terrorists in all countries say " God is great " when he is pronounced as killer of lots of innocent civilians by the judge.
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In the OT, there were a lot of religious battles where God people slaughtered other people and God would strike them down if they spared a single cow or slave child. Some people are still stuck with this idea that God wants them to kill certain people, sparing no one. They've missed out on the whole Jesus-fulfils-the-prophecy-no-more-killing part and also fail to realize that some of those OT religious battles never even happen, they're just myths and metaphors used to show the supremacy of God.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:

Even listening to Streets from the Boston DVD, I wasn't there, but I feel it more than when I pray.
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I was there, and at that moment it was an intense spiritual moment for me! Unexplainable. And it still is- nice to see for other people, as well.

Interesting discussion. :up:
 
Just out of curiosity and total ingorance, why would God be all vengeful and violent and then suddenly the opposite in the NT? Did he change his mind? If God is perfect why would he have to change his mind and have a whole new outlook??

Also how ARE you supposed to pray? Is there a specific list of prayers in some official religious language, or can you just talk to God in your head?
 
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Mrs. Edge said:
Just out of curiosity and total ingorance, why would God be all vengeful and violent and then suddenly the opposite in the NT? Did he change his mind? If God is perfect why would he have to change his mind and have a whole new outlook??
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The problem is that people (not you, but some people in general) rip these OT stories out of context and completely misinterpret their purpose. The purpose is NOT to show that God is vengeful, violent, a killer, and someone who aproves of destroying another race in His name; the point is that God is all-powerful, omnipotent, and he COULD destroy an entire race if he wanted to. Like I said before, some of the religious battles in the OT never happened, they're just stories used to fulfil the purpose. I can't really answer your last question because I'd prefer to avoid speculation regarding what God wants/thinks. All I know is that if these texts were used correctly, as the authors intended, we wouldn't have to debate over why it looks like God encourages war and violence.
 
Mrs. Edge said:
Also how ARE you supposed to pray? Is there a specific list of prayers in some official religious language, or can you just talk to God in your head?
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There are prayer books, which may help, but are not required by any means. There is no official language in Christianity (though, that may be different for other religions. In Islam, for example, prayers must be in Arabic). You can speak out loud or in you head (God still hears you).

I find that praying through Scripture (such as the Ten Commandments, the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) or the Psalms) is helpful at times.
 
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nbcrusader said:


There are prayer books, which may help, but are not required by any means. There is no official language in Christianity (though, that may be different for other religions. In Islam, for example, prayers must be in Arabic). You can speak out loud or in you head (God still hears you).

I find that praying through Scripture (such as the Ten Commandments, the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) or the Psalms) is helpful at times.
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Hmmm, was latin not the official language many many years ago ?
 
Rono said:
Hmmm, was latin not the official language many many years ago ?
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You may be referring to the Catholic Church, which conducted services in Latin. I do not recall if they required congregants to pray in Latin.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
The purpose is NOT to show that God is vengeful, violent, a killer, and someone who aproves of destroying another race in His name; the point is that God is all-powerful, omnipotent, and he COULD destroy an entire race if he wanted to.
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A cynic could easily take that statement and say "ah, so those who write the Bible needed to instill fear of some great being who could easily destroy them if he felt like it, so that the people would fall in line and follow without question."

But I'm not a cynic. :)
 
I just read all 4 pages and everyone?s input was very interesting. What a subject to get into. I don't think we were meant to fully understand it. This may sound self centered, but I think if we can find inner peace then we will be the closest to God. I don't thank him for things like a car not hitting me after I cross a street, but for allowing me to know the good people I have in my life.

People make choices, like allowing other people starve, people may have AIDs because of someone else?s choices. I completely believe that people are the only ones to blame if there is a fixable situation not fixed.
 
nbcrusader said:


You may be referring to the Catholic Church, which conducted services in Latin. I do not recall if they required congregants to pray in Latin.
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We Catholics have never been required to say our prayers in Latin. Some of the names of our prayers are known by their Latin names, such as the Ave Maria for the Hail Mary. That's because the Church used Latin so much, and still does for the Pope's encyclicals and other global Church stuff. Of course we used to have Latin masses, now mass is in the vernacular.
 
To the person who asks why you are thankful to God about fixing "small" things read this:

I Thessalonians 5:18
In EVERYTHING give thanks;
for this is God's will
for you in Christ Jesus.

Key Word: Everything. There is not a hair in your body that the Lord hasn't counted. Everything and anything occurs or happens because he allows it. Why he doesn't fix other problems is up to his will. His holy plan is what it's all about. It's all about him. Not about us.

Sometimes his will doesn't make sense to us because we see things from a more narrow point of view. But on a larges scale -his view, it's perfectly clear why he does things. We may not know it now but he knows what's good for us much like our loving father.

Sometimes our own pride drives us away from God. Sometimes we think we are all-powerful and can solve all our problems. But the Lord says we are to be humble and that the wise man admits his mistakes and learns from them.

Surrender is such a difficult word to embrace. So difficult to do when everything around us says to do the exact oppossite "Never Surrender". But the truth is God isn't to be in the passenger seat in your life - HE SHOULD BE ON THE WHEEL.

If he was willing to die for you and me the least we can do is obey him.

Cheers and God Bless...
 
In other words: sit down, shut up and, for God's sake, don't ask any questions.

Just focus on the next life.
 
nbcrusader said:
What part is terrible? Trusting God? Being humble? Obeying God?
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No! What's terrible is what iacrobat posted and BrownEyedBoy agreed with - that people should just "sit down, shut up ... focus on the next life." I think living life with that attitude would be pretty terrible.
 
I was attempting to clarify my previous post, but I think I just confused it even more, so I'm deleting this post.

Sorry for any confusion. :)
 
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It's terrible that BrownEyedBoy agreed with my comment, I thought he(can I assume from the username?) was taking the piss. But it was no joke, he really does agree with my assessment, scary!

Its meaningless rhetoric that comes across as condescending. It is ultimately escapist because the focus IS on the "next life." To say it is "up to his will" is to turn a blind eye to everything good and evil in this world. Why, as a white, english speaking, heterosexual, wealthy male, do I have more advantages on anyone else on the planet?

Cos that's the way god intended it?
Bullshit.

This type of thinking justifies the status quo and impedes change, equality and justice.

As long as people die in poverty needlessy and I live in comfort and excess, then it IS about us. Fuck Him and his so called "plan." I will do everything I can to change this world.

I do not believe it is His plan, I believe it is important to question EVERYTHING. I will not sit idly by and wait for my reward in heaven.

As one smart man said, I believe God is on his knees begging us to act.

My anger is directed at this attitude, which I have been around enough of in my life, not anything else.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
Okay, my last post could definitely be misinterpreted. I'm not saying I agree with the comments, personally I don't think they're an accurate characterisation of what BrownEyedBoy posted...although then again, he did say iacrobat was right, so maybe I'm talking nonsense. I was just saying that IF a person did live their lives on that basis, I think it would be pretty terrible.

I'm not entirely sure that this is any clearer now. :lol:
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It's clear FizzingWhizzbees!

I didn't expect anyone to agree with me, so I am as suprised as you. It would be terrible if someone lived their life like that.
 
(1) living life according to God's will and (2) using God's gifts, asking questions and taking action are not mutually exclusive. Focusing on the "next life" should not blind us to the life we live today.
 
I didn't "agree" with you. You translated and understood the message that best way you saw fit. I simply meant to say "If that's the way you want to see it, then fine"

But the truth is, in order to achieve God's purpose for yout life you have to surrender to God's will. Sometimes you may not understand it but some orders you don't understand until you've completed them...whence myu agreeing with your "shut up and listen" translation.

I hope I clarified myself a little.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
I didn't "agree" with you. You translated and understood the message that best way you saw fit. I simply meant to say "If that's the way you want to see it, then fine"

But the truth is, in order to achieve God's purpose for yout life you have to surrender to God's will. Sometimes you may not understand it but some orders you don't understand until you've completed them...whence myu agreeing with your "shut up and listen" translation.

I hope I clarified myself a little.
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You do have to do a bit of submission but I like the way NB put it, following God's will, and using the brain He gave you to question, think and take action are not mutually exclusive. I think it's my *duty* to protest against things I consider unjust, for the sake of other people *and* myself. To never act against things you consider unjust isn't good for anyone. Some things are a mystery, we ask "why" and we don't always get answers. Sometimes I can only say "it's God's will not mine". It depends on the situation.
 
iacrobat said:

As long as people die in poverty needlessy and I live in comfort and excess, then it IS about us. Fuck Him and his so called "plan." I will do everything I can to change this world.

I do not believe it is His plan, I believe it is important to question EVERYTHING. I will not sit idly by and wait for my reward in heaven.

As one smart man said, I believe God is on his knees begging us to act.

My anger is directed at this attitude, which I have been around enough of in my life, not anything else.
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:yes:
 
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