Florida execution takes much longer than usual

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Yes, but no one here on the forum has this attitude.

I take position against death sentence, they take position for the one that gets killed.
Like the others in this thread as far as I understand them.
 
Justin24 said:
angela please tell me how you would stop murders from happening if you dont want that person executed in the end for doing it?

Why did europeans stop executing people, for henious crimes?

BVS I dont think my words are discusting I think it's reality.

There's theories about it, one of the most prominant is that the path of criminality is the product of failed informal systems. Our informal systems are our families, our schools, our neighbourhoods, etc. There's a distinct trend, or stereotype, if you will, of the average neighbourhood offender who is the product of a broken home, has parents or other immediate family with drug and alcohol dependencies, an all too familiar relationship with the court system, juvenile justice, the equivilent department of family and community services, little or inadequate schooling, perhaps even to the point of intellectual handicap, lack of stability, lack of financial security, the list goes on. There's a whole slew of others, such as white collar and corporate criminals who's backgrounds trends are as varied as the crimes themselves. However, with this garden variety murderer, there's a lifetime of failed systems which build us to be conscientious and generally law abiding. Of course having money or security is no guarantee, but it makes a big difference. Alternatively, not having those things does not mean you are doomed to fail. We do, however, learn from what we see and live with. It is a long process which gets you from being born equal to everyone else, to sitting in the dock of a cold and clinical courtroom where the laws are not going to look at you personally a great deal - as anitram alluded to earlier when she described the disconnect with the crime itself.

As ot how we can actually stop people murdering, there is no one way. Execution is certainly no solution, nor successful method of promoting prevention. Regarldess of what action anyone takes to work on preventative measures, the facts on capital punishment remain. The crimes and the existence of them do nothing to change what capital punishment is.
 
You guys win...............:| from now on when I hear of a horrendous murder. I know it wont be worth executing the fucker. :|
 
Angela Harlem said:


There's theories about it, one of the most prominant is that the path of criminality is the product of failed informal systems. Our informal systems are our families, our schools, our neighbourhoods, etc. There's a distinct trend, or stereotype, if you will, of the average neighbourhood offender who is the product of a broken home, has parents or other immediate family with drug and alcohol dependencies, an all too familiar relationship with the court system, juvenile justice, the equivilent department of family and community services, little or inadequate schooling, perhaps even to the point of intellectual handicap, lack of stability, lack of financial security, the list goes on. There's a whole slew of others, such as white collar and corporate criminals who's backgrounds trends are as varied as the crimes themselves. However, with this garden variety murderer, there's a lifetime of failed systems which build us to be conscientious and generally law abiding. Of course having money or security is no guarantee, but it makes a big difference. Alternatively, not having those things does not mean you are doomed to fail. We do, however, learn from what we see and live with. It is a long process which gets you from being born equal to everyone else, to sitting in the dock of a cold and clinical courtroom where the laws are not going to look at you personally a great deal - as anitram alluded to earlier when she described the disconnect with the crime itself.

As ot how we can actually stop people murdering, there is no one way. Execution is certainly no solution, nor successful method of promoting prevention. Regarldess of what action anyone takes to work on preventative measures, the facts on capital punishment remain. The crimes and the existence of them do nothing to change what capital punishment is.

Angela I really respect your views alot.
 
Justin24 said:


Angela I really respect your views alot.

Thanks Justin. I dont want you to think that I'm trying to say there's no value in your empathy for the victims of crime. I'd hope you dont lose that. It's plain and simple compassion. I think vincent and anitram and bvs are the same, though, that whatever views we have are not directly connected to our responses to horrific crimes; but about state sanctioned executions being just.
 
That's basically it.

I would feel very sick if anyone said I wouldn't feel for the victims only because I don't support executions.
 
What if the culprit is known to be guilty without a shadow of a doubt? Like a confession or being caught in fraganti? In that 5% of cases what's your case against a death penalty?
 
IT doesn't matter if they were caught actually committing the murder, they still shouldn't be killed by law.

Although the not knowing 100% is a good argument and something i agree with, its not my main point of why i don't agree.

See there are always going to be bad people in this world. Maybe its because of how they were raised, maybe its just life that fucked them up (booze drugs etc), who knows how some people get to where they are, but there are NEVER going to not be any murderers, crime may diminish but it will never go away. Nothing is a deterrant, even the death penalty!

My whole point is - we are so disgusted with murder, how can someone take someone elses life - how dare they! but then we turn around and say 'oh now its your turn to die'
do you see taking away emotion and eye for an eye, how STUPID that idea is! To kill for killing someone?

I don't believe all can be rehabilitated, and i'd much prefer them to sit in gaol the rest of their lives - maybe this is my 'revenge' feeling. I don't feel compassion for the murderer, but i also don't think that they should be killed - it doesn't sit right with me.
 
We don't arbitrarily say "it's your turn to die". If you KNOW the consequences of your actions beforehand then it is assumed that you accept them as well ...even if it's your own death.

How is anybody else responsible besides oneself? Sounds like a suicide to me.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
What if the culprit is known to be guilty without a shadow of a doubt? Like a confession or being caught in fraganti? In that 5% of cases what's your case against a death penalty?

Not even confessions are 100%. Ever heard of the Jon Benet Ramsey case?
 
Justin, I simply cannot believe that you would think that a little compensation would be enough for the wrongful murder of an innocent person on death row. I thought you were vehemently against the murder of innocent people, yet these people are ok so long as someone gets some money?

That makes absolutely no sense.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
What if the culprit is known to be guilty without a shadow of a doubt? Like a confession or being caught in fraganti? In that 5% of cases what's your case against a death penalty?

"Guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt" is not the burden of proof in the United States. If it was, these arguments would be more credible, but it's not. We don't require absolute proof in any cases, including capital murder cases.
 
gherman said:


He's a fucking cold blooded murder and her still got off with DNA evidence. Like what you said. It's not always 100%

DNA and juries were much different then, he more than likely wouldn't get off today.

Regardless you missed my point.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


DNA and juries were much different then, he more than likely wouldn't get off today.

Regardless you missed my point.

Also, its not nessecarilly the DNA evidance. Even then. Even if the DNA is accurate. The fact is that our jury system is messed up. It was the layers and jacked up justice system that got O.J. off.
 
gherman said:
The fact is that our jury system is messed up. It was the layers and jacked up justice system that got O.J. off.

The jury didn't make a mistake. Most of the evidence was circumstantial and yes, the prosecution made fatal mistakes. Why does that mean the jury system is what's messed up? Is there a better alternative? We already sent innocent people to prison for capital murder. If we lessen the burden of proof any farther, imagine where we'd end up....

No system can be perfect, just like no evidence can be absolute. Our system works as well as any other alternative.
 
I haven't posted in this thread yet, but I wanted to share an e-mail I received tonight. I thought it was related:

Opponents of Maryland's death penalty won a big victory today! The Maryland Court of Appeals ruled that, because they weren't developed in compliance with the state's Administrative Procedures Act (APA), Maryland's lethal injection protocol is essentially invalid and must be rewritten. This decision effectively halts all executions in Maryland indefinitely, as redeveloping the procedure will require input from the legislature and attorney general's office, as well as a period of public comment - all long and costly endeavors.

The ruling also further bolsters our collective call for the repeal of Maryland's death penalty. Developing acceptable lethal injection procedures won't be easy and will take lots of our state's resource. The process will also raise complicated questions for medical personnel who might be tapped, as well as others.


Yay!
 
Liesje said:


The jury didn't make a mistake. Most of the evidence was circumstantial and yes, the prosecution made fatal mistakes. Why does that mean the jury system is what's messed up? Is there a better alternative? We already sent innocent people to prison for capital murder. If we lessen the burden of proof any farther, imagine where we'd end up....

No system can be perfect, just like no evidence can be absolute. Our system works as well as any other alternative.

I actually meant the justice system. Typing error. The fact is that people with money and celebrity get off.
 
gherman said:


I actually meant the justice system. Typing error. The fact is that people with money and celebrity get off.

Money and celebrity....or circumstantial evidence and a botched prosecution? Money and celebrity should only cause the jury to make even more damn sure there is no doubt. His case really proves to what extent the burden lies with the prosecution, not the defense.

(for the record, I'm convinced he did it. IMO, innocent people don't lead dozens of police cars down a six-lane highway for a long high speed chase. But, if I sat on that jury based on that trial, I can't say for sure I'd convict...)
 
Liesje said:


Money and celebrity....or circumstantial evidence and a botched prosecution? Money and celebrity should only cause the jury to make even more damn sure there is no doubt. His case really proves to what extent the burden lies with the prosecution, not the defense.

(for the record, I'm convinced he did it. IMO, innocent people don't lead dozens of police cars down a six-lane highway for a long high speed chase. But, if I sat on that jury based on that trial, I can't say for sure I'd convict...)

Yeah, the funny thing about it is that we all KNOW he did it. But based on what? Surely nothing that would hold up in court. We just all FEEL in our guts that he's guilty sumbitch who managed to get away with it. And his latest attempt at a book only confirms our suspicisons. But none of that could ever be considered any real evidence.

(And I say this as someone who also believes he's guilty).
 
I oppose the death penalty, largely because I believe humans don't have the moral authority to end the lives of other humans and because of the possiblity of executing innocent people.

The second argument is the stronger one for me, because I could see an argument where sometimes the ending of human life is necessary (as in warfare, some cases of abortion, and perhaps even the death penalty etc). However when it becomes necessary, I think it would be important to recognize the tremendous cost, not only to the person whose life is lost, but also to those that take the life. Taking a human life is always wrong, and even when it is "necessary", I believe there are huge costs to those who do it. What I find particularly reprehinsible is the glee that so many death penalty supporters take in the death of the criminal. The whole "let em fry, hang 'em high" celebrating-the-death-of-the-criminal mentality is really disturbing.

If you're going to support the death penalty, at least recognize the magnitude of what you're doing, the severity and finality of it, and have the appropriate solemnity about it. The taking of another human life is serious, ugly business and should be treated as such.
 
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