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Old 12-18-2006, 11:30 AM   #106
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Thats why I keep stressing that we have DNA and other methods to prove one GUILT
Ever watched The Life of David Gale?

Anyway, DNA is not always foolproof. In fact, just saying "DNA evidence" really means nothing. Some DNA yields more specific results than others. Some DNA samples are too degraded for 100% identification. There is room for human error with any form of testing.

Besides, GUILT is not and never has been a burden of proof. It's proof beyond reasonable doubt. This burden is not 100% GUILT. If you're going to use DNA evidence and GUILT for your argument, than I recommend you also figure out a way for the court system to overhaul the burden of proof necessary to convict for first degree murder.
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:39 AM   #107
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We have learned from the past and value people more than in the middle ages.

Now we believe in rehabilitation, and don't want to sink to the level of criminals.

And as said before, brutal punishment doesn't stop crime.
Old people here in Germany also come with the argument, under Hitler Germany was such a safe place.
Like your country under the dictatorship. But there it is, under a dictatorship.

We have overcome this stupid time, and learned that everybody has to be treated with some respect.

Of course it's shit when people get robbed, and you want some punishment. But cutting their hands off doesn't help.
No one becomes a burglar out of fun, but because they are desperately trying to survive and don't see another possiblity.
So we have to show them another perspective, and give them a chance to do better in future.
That is reached by rehablitation. Of course, not always, but nothing is perfect.

And if rehabilitation isn't enough, we lock people away for the rest of their life.
But we stopped to kill other people.

"We have overcome this stupid time"? You mean that stupid time when there weren´t as many crimes there are now that we so intelligently believe in "rehabilitation"?

I don´t know about you but I much prefer this "stupid time" when there weren´t any crimes and the method for fighting crime actually worked.

I´m glad you have life and posessions to spare so that you can relax and feel like you can be robbed or murdered and still be so nonchalant about it that you´ll say "well, let´s be humane about it and rehabilitate the guy in prison".
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:40 AM   #108
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I disagree. There is no excuse for being a criminal.

I´m really glad you guys have never had a criminal hurt you or one of your loved ones because then you would stop being so benign with them.
you really mean we are so spoiled and didn't ever experienced any criminal behaviour?
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:41 AM   #109
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So what should we do then, give me some of your ideas, besides sticking them in a hole forever???Isn't that cruel and unusal punishment? Isn't it torture which you are against?
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:42 AM   #110
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Did you ever watch the show 30 days by Morgan Spearlock. He went to Prison for 30 days. Towards the end, one of the men is released but ends up back in prison, where is the rehabilitiation?? Once some one murders another human being there are non-human. When a person executes the murderer it's like putting an animal down. I doubt it's that painful unlike his/her vicitims went through.

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That is reached by rehablitation. Of course, not always, but nothing is perfect.
My words have a meaning
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:46 AM   #111
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So what should we do then, give me some of your ideas, besides sticking them in a hole forever???Isn't that cruel and unusal punishment? Isn't it torture which you are against?
Where do you get this? You think death is better than life in prison? I thought you didn't care about their well being?

Look, there is no 100% way of knowing, so until then how can there be an absolute punishment? ANSWER THAT? Answer without an emotional response...
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:49 AM   #112
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"We have overcome this stupid time"? You mean that stupid time when there weren´t as many crimes there are now that we so intelligently believe in "rehabilitation"?

I don´t know about you but I much prefer this "stupid time" when there weren´t any crimes and the method for fighting crime actually worked.

I´m glad you have life and posessions to spare so that you can relax and feel like you can be robbed or murdered and still be so nonchalant about it that you´ll say "well, let´s be humane about it and rehabilitate the guy in prison".
Why do you continue to ignore people's posts? You think living under Hitler would have been cool? Living under a dictatorship forcing such environments where feeding your children meant having to commit a crime punishable by losing a hand...this is what you want? Come on, think!!!
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:50 AM   #113
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy



"We have overcome this stupid time"? You mean that stupid time when there weren´t as many crimes there are now that we so intelligently believe in "rehabilitation"?

I don´t know about you but I much prefer this "stupid time" when there weren´t any crimes and the method for fighting crime actually worked.

I´m glad you have life and posessions to spare so that you can relax and feel like you can be robbed or murdered and still be so nonchalant about it that you´ll say "well, let´s be humane about it and rehabilitate the guy in prison".
The time I was speaking of led to the killing of between 50 to 60 million people.

Have fun there.

Should I want him to get murdered?
Of course I would be furious, of course I would demand some punishment, of course I want my things back, of course I don't want it to ever happen again.

But don't you see there are other ways to punish people?
Is killing, or cutting hands off, all you can think of as punishment?
He stole material, you want his hand?

And your remark about putting in a hole.
Where did I speak of a hole?
In Germany prisons are everything but a inhumane hole, and in other western countries as well.
And I don't want 'em to end up in a hole.
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:52 AM   #114
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If it means anything, my friend was robbed at gunpoint when she lived in Honduras and you bet she'd choose that over dictatorship any day.
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:00 PM   #115
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Why do you continue to ignore people's posts? You think living under Hitler would have been cool? Living under a dictatorship forcing such environments where feeding your children meant having to commit a crime punishable by losing a hand...this is what you want? Come on, think!!!
You can´t honestly believe that I was suggesting to adopt the ENTIRE M.O. of this government. That´s absurd.

All I´m suggesting is to ONLY adopt their harsh punishment laws, which evidently worked.
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:03 PM   #116
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

All I´m suggesting is to ONLY adopt their harsh punishment laws, which evidently worked.
It doesn't work now and it's never worked here. Capital punishment does not deter murder.

What worked was instilling fear by threatening to inflict or inflicting torture.
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:06 PM   #117
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You can´t honestly believe that I was suggesting to adopt the ENTIRE M.O. of this government. That´s absurd.

All I´m suggesting is to ONLY adopt their harsh punishment laws, which evidently worked.
They go hand in hand, look at history. You are fooling yourself to think they worked.

Just try and take a look at other factors. Take a look at the economic divides in the last 50 years, technology over the 50 years, population growths, etc...

My grandparents lived in less crime 50 years ago and guess what, it wasn't due to hands being chopped off.

Read something...
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:07 PM   #118
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Then what was it? What was the reason behind it? Whatever it was, let´s do it.

I´m all for eliminating crime by ANY means necessary. I don´t see how anyone besides a criminal would not want that.
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:11 PM   #119
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Then what was it? What was the reason behind it? Whatever it was, let´s do it.

I´m all for eliminating crime by ANY means necessary. I don´t see how anyone besides a criminal would not want that.
What was what?

Like I said, take a look at the population growths, economic divides, education, etc...

But you'll never eliminate crime, because you can't eliminate greed.

You were sold a lie, a nostalgic lie.

Cain killed his brother, was it because the punishment was too soft?
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:13 PM   #120
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Not necessarilly. But if the punishment had been harsh enough at least it would have disencouraged later crimes somewhat.
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