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Old 12-17-2006, 10:41 AM   #76
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Well that's your belief, but you can't out law the DP if people out there still support it as a form of punishment.
Actually, "you" can, or could, if "you" is the Supreme Court or state legislatures. Just because some "people out there" still believe in it doesn't mean it will stick around by default.
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:46 AM   #77
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Indra are we talking about today or 15 years ago when we did not use DNA and other new forms of identifying the murderer?
Think of how long people in the death penalty row sit in jail on average.

People that get executed now normally were sentenced 12 to 15 years ago.
When we didn't use DNA.
Also, still people get sentenced although they are innocent.
DNA helps us a lot to decrease this number, but will never succeed in diminish the number of innocents 0.

Also you seem to support self-justice.

But don't you think that it's kind of anarchy and pretty dangerous?
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:30 PM   #78
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Originally posted by Justin24


I dont think so. There was a video that I saw where a child molester/murderer who was shot point blank in the head by the father as he walked out of court. The father did not serve any jail time.
Oh, so you can kill people and get away with it but not the murderer of your loved one?

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Old 12-17-2006, 12:32 PM   #79
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Bullshit.

What about those of us who have had loved ones murdered and still don't believe in the DP?

Everyones feelings are different, and to tell you the truth, I wish my feelings were different about the issue as well. I applaud your belief and say you are bigger than me. I didn't want to become the same type of monster that killed a family member.

I do however, have forgiven this person and would still like to see a punishment one day.

Has anyone thought of how long it took the person to die that was being murdered.
Did it happen quickly, or did the person have time to have their life flash before them and think of leaving their loved ones and what will happen to them when they are gone?

My cousin laid in the wet street, before someone knew he was even there and thats where he died. That was not his decision, but the person who pulled the trigger.

The death penalty is the cowardly way out, 9 out of 10 times its quick and easy.

The person who has to have the fear, and all the thoughts that go with dying in a brutal way are the brave ones.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:22 PM   #80
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
You want these representatives of the state to have this authority to remove a life? Do you understand just how significant it is to even remove someone's freedoms and sentence them to 14 years in gaol? These ordinary regular people spend their working days yielding this incredible power; but there's countries like the US where daily job tasks of certain people require ending the life of someone; of taking the massive leap from this to killing someone. If this cannot sink in and show itself for the sheer ludicrousness that it is, then I'm stumped. You are beyond my comprehension.

Those various state functionaries you listed are exercising this power only as a form of delegated authority, excercising the will of the people as it were. It is not a power within their personal ambit to exercise.

The death penalty in my view should be available as the ultimate sanction.
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Old 12-17-2006, 02:01 PM   #81
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Originally posted by Justin24


Well that's your belief, but you can't out law the DP if people out there still support it as a form of punishment.
That's insane logic. That's like saying you can't outlaw cutting off theives hands if there are still some who support it. You can't outlaw segregation if some people out there still support it...

Be consistent, you aren't being consistent with the argument you presented anitram...
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Old 12-17-2006, 02:15 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24


Indra are we talking about today or 15 years ago when we did not use DNA and other new forms of identifying the murderer?
Are you are seriously suggesting that there is no possibility that anyone convicted now could be possibly be ever found to be innocent in the future?

The people wrongly convicted years ago were convicted by people who thought there wasn't a shadow of a doubt either. And in 5, 10, 15 years from now there will be further advances which will make many of the tests we now think of as foolproof obsolete. Some of these are tests which results you are accepting as proof allowing someone to be executed.

And I still want to know who you think should be executed for the people wrongly convicted and executed.
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Old 12-17-2006, 02:25 PM   #83
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Originally posted by Justin24


I dont think so. There was a video that I saw where a child molester/murderer who was shot point blank in the head by the father as he walked out of court. The father did not serve any jail time.
"A Time To Kill" good movie, but he still commited murder. No matter how horrible the victim was, it's still murder. He should have done time.
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:04 PM   #84
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


That's insane logic. That's like saying you can't outlaw cutting off theives hands if there are still some who support it. You can't outlaw segregation if some people out there still support it...

Be consistent, you aren't being consistent with the argument you presented anitram...
In Honduras we had a dictatorship about 50 years ago. Thieves did get their hands cut off if caught stealing. There were very harsh laws at the time and I might even agree it was barbaric.

But, you know what? It worked. My grandparents tell stories about how you could sleep with your door open at night. You could leave your stuff out in the lawn and no one would take it.

I really wish human rights wouldn't be such an obstacle for harsh punishments. It would give everybody a safer enviornment to live in.

My house has been burglarized about twice already and one was about 2 or 3 months ago. If you asked me I wouldn't think twice about cutting those thieves hands off. I'd do it myself and with a not-so-sharp knife so it would hurt the thieves more.

If you don't plan on commiting any crimes any time soon then I don't see what your problem is against death penalty because it won't happen to you.

Don't want to get the death sentence? DON'T COMMIT ANY CRIMES.

It's really that simple.
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:33 PM   #85
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:36 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy



Those various state functionaries you listed are exercising this power only as a form of delegated authority, excercising the will of the people as it were. It is not a power within their personal ambit to exercise.

The death penalty in my view should be available as the ultimate sanction.
And you want to give these people in their daily working lives the power and authority to execute citizens? This very same government we cry out against if they wish to read our emails or track what library books we borrow? You want to give them the absolute authority over lifeitself?
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:05 PM   #87
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In Honduras we had a dictatorship about 50 years ago. Thieves did get their hands cut off if caught stealing. There were very harsh laws at the time and I might even agree it was barbaric.

But, you know what? It worked. My grandparents tell stories about how you could sleep with your door open at night. You could leave your stuff out in the lawn and no one would take it.

I really wish human rights wouldn't be such an obstacle for harsh punishments. It would give everybody a safer enviornment to live in.

My house has been burglarized about twice already and one was about 2 or 3 months ago. If you asked me I wouldn't think twice about cutting those thieves hands off. I'd do it myself and with a not-so-sharp knife so it would hurt the thieves more.

If you don't plan on commiting any crimes any time soon then I don't see what your problem is against death penalty because it won't happen to you.

Don't want to get the death sentence? DON'T COMMIT ANY CRIMES.

It's really that simple.
This has to one of the most narrow views I've seen in awhile. What about all those impovershed parents that suffered under the dictatorship who stole bread so their children can live? I bet they deserved their hands cut off... This view ignores so many factors it's not even funny...

What are you going to do when you are framed for murder, you still going to support the death penalty? Oh, but it would never happen to you, so who cares? But it does happen, then what?

I'm glad you aren't running a country.
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:19 PM   #88
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Don't want to get the death sentence? DON'T COMMIT ANY CRIMES.

It's really that simple.
Are you at all familiar with statistics on inmates? You must be aware that most criminals' intelligence is so low that it borders on intellectual disability, right? You do realise also, that gaols are filled with inmates who have grown up in environments which render them useless at making choices and decisions in their lives which we all take for granted, right? You do realise the path to a life of crime begins before adulthood, right? You do realise that rehabilitiation is not solely about learning the offender of the wrongness of their ways, but more learning the tools in which to successfully lead a stable life?
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:27 PM   #89
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and just a side note tot hat - do you SEE crimes diminishing due to this death penalty? No. So its obviously not working and therefore this whole 'fear of dying to stop you murdering' is bullshit and therefore needs to be STOPPED.

I just cannot for the LIFE of me understand that people could feel justified taking the life of someone because they took the life of someone. Do you not see they are exactly the same?!
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:20 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


In Honduras we had a dictatorship about 50 years ago. Thieves did get their hands cut off if caught stealing. There were very harsh laws at the time and I might even agree it was barbaric.

But, you know what? It worked. My grandparents tell stories about how you could sleep with your door open at night. You could leave your stuff out in the lawn and no one would take it.
Your example doesn't work. You want to know why?

Back when my mother - not my grandmother, my mother - was a teenager some thirty years ago in New Zealand, you could leave your house and your car unlocked in my hometown and nothing would happen to it. Same situation there as what you just described as happening in your grandparent's day in Honduras. Twenty years later, when I was a boy, you locked your house and car as a matter of course. So, same situation as you, going from a society with a perceived lack of thievery to one where you took precautions, and you want to know the critical difference? In New Zealand, the death penalty had ceased to be used as a punishment even when my mother was a teenager (I believe we used it a total of eight times in our history) and we never chopped off criminals' hands. So what's your amazing explanation for the similar experiences despite dissimilar punishments?

Quote:
I really wish human rights wouldn't be such an obstacle for harsh punishments. It would give everybody a safer enviornment to live in.
This is one of the most absurd comments I've read on FYM. Yeah, damn those human rights, getting in the way of your bloodlust! It's long since been proven that your bloodthirsty idea of justice does not act as a deterrent. Multiple posters have emphasised and demonstrated this. Why don't you start listening? Is it truly impossible to reason with people like you who have mindsets that are so blatantly barbaric?
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