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Old 12-16-2006, 11:31 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Justin24
Angela Halem as achtung bono said. I pray that nothing happens to all of us. But how can you live with knowing the person who killed your love one is being fed, has a place to sleep, gets to exercise, watch tv, and I am sure cause more violence in prison? so not only do you spend thousands of dollars to bury your loved one, your still paying to keep this person alive?

Angela I dont want to look like a bad person. I hope you dont think bad of me, but this is my opinion.

^ I agree with Justin, and as someone who has had a relative that was gunned downed in the middle of the street on a cold and rainy December night 20 years ago, I could say I would like to see the person punished. An eye for an eye.
My cousin owed money to a "friend" and didn't pay back in time. They kept extorting money from him as punishment and even took his business. (the money he borrowed was to open his business.)

He was 25 years old with a baby on the way, his son never new his father.

The investigators think they know who committed the crime, but there is a lack of evidence so no arrests were ever made.

If caught, I would gladly be a witness.

I was extremely close with my cousin, he was like an older brother, we grew up together until that night.

It was horrible for a few years thinking that maybe this person would come after other family members, or if you look at someone think maybe it was him etc.

It's very easy to say the death penalty should be abolished, but when you have an experience with a crime that is deserving of it, it is a completely different feeling.
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:19 AM   #62
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Originally posted by JCOSTER


It's very easy to say the death penalty should be abolished, but when you have an experience with a crime that is deserving of it, it is a completely different feeling.
And yet plenty of people in that situation still abhor the death penalty.

All this talk of justice - there is no such thing. Somebody murders your mother in cold blood, do you think there is justice for that? There isn't. It's an illusion.

The death penalty is abhorrent. Most of the civilized world has come to recognize it. The company the US is in, frankly, is embarrassing.
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:53 AM   #63
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And yet plenty of people in that situation still abhor the death penalty.

All this talk of justice - there is no such thing. Somebody murders your mother in cold blood, do you think there is justice for that? There isn't. It's an illusion.

The death penalty is abhorrent. Most of the civilized world has come to recognize it. The company the US is in, frankly, is embarrassing.
Well I pray for you also that nothing happens to you or your family. You can not say anything, unless you went through what JCoster has.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:05 AM   #64
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Originally posted by Justin24


Well I pray for you also that nothing happens to you or your family. You can not say anything, unless you went through what JCoster has.
That is bullshit. You can say whatever you like about anything. Its one person's opinions, doesn't mean its fact, or not fact.

Most people have an imagination and compassion which are two things needed to look at something and judge how you'd feel about it. Yes, i have not had a friend or family member murdered, but i have lost close family and i KNOW that pain. That pain would not be ANY LESS if the person who killed them was also put to death.

Why would the taking of someone elses life, lessen your pain slightly? Or what? make your family/friends death more berable by the fact that the murderer died too? I really REALLY don't understand this line of thinking. Here people are so abborant about death, yet are so quick to say 'kill kill' when it comes to the murderer.

It's not justice, its revenge and it should be legal. The USA really needs to look at what they are accepting as law and focus on changing it!
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:06 AM   #65
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oh and btw, JC i am sorry for your cousin It must be awful to deal with something like that.
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:53 AM   #66
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A scenario/question for those who believe in an eye for an eye:

A person is murdered. A suspect is arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and executed. But a little while later irrefutable proof comes to light that the executed person was innocent.

Who gets executed now?

Remember. An eye for an eye. Oops doesn't cut it. Someone MUST pay. Maybe the people on the jury should be executed. Maybe the prosecutor. Or the cops who arrested the guy. Or the family members of the first victim who were clamoring for the second victim's (because he is not a criminal) execution. Of course the actual executioner is toast.

Who's death assuages the pain and suffering of his (or her) family?
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Old 12-17-2006, 02:22 AM   #67
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Just is a term of morality, an argument of proportional punishment fits. Of course by that same logic rapists should themselves be punished with rape.
Just is actually the basis of law; an endeavour to meet the conflicts of society, the victim, and the community. Law has an obligational requirement to meet all 3. It's what usually makes a country a liberal and free democracy; not, it seems, the US, though.

Justin, AchtungBono, and others; your views help make you who you are. You wishing to see another life ended, regardless of the compassionate element, place yourselves in the same position as the person who broke the law in the first place.

I'm curious about something else, too. You guys who support the death penalty, what are your views on how the state manages the responsibility of this drastic and incredibly terminal action? Give some thought to the fact that everyone in the justice system are simply regular people. Judges, Magistrates, solicitors, QCs, Correctional Services Officers, departmental suits, etc. They're ordinary people. Think about the discretionary authority these people have. You want these representatives of the state to have this authority to remove a life? Do you understand just how significant it is to even remove someone's freedoms and sentence them to 14 years in gaol? These ordinary regular people spend their working days yielding this incredible power; but there's countries like the US where daily job tasks of certain people require ending the life of someone; of taking the massive leap from this to killing someone. If this cannot sink in and show itself for the sheer ludicrousness that it is, then I'm stumped. You are beyond my comprehension.
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:00 AM   #68
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Well I pray for you also that nothing happens to you or your family. You can not say anything, unless you went through what JCoster has.
Bullshit.

What about those of us who have had loved ones murdered and still don't believe in the DP?
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:13 AM   #69
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Originally posted by AchtungBono

If there were any justice in the world then criminals would be punished in the manner in which they committed their crimes - stabbers should be stabbed, stranglers should be strangled, poisoners should be poisoned...etc.
Man what a sick and deppressing world we'd live in if the form of 'justice' your suggesting here was actually in operation.

I personally can't really believe that the death penalty is still existant in some countries. I mean have we progressed at all??? It sometimes feels like we're still living in the dark ages.

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:50 AM   #70
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I don't get this.

Person A's house is robbed by Person B. We don't sentence Person B to have his house robbed and items of an equal value stolen.

Person C commits fraud and fleeces Person D and their family of their savings. We don't sentence Person C and their family to fraud.

Person E rapes Person F. We don't sentence Person E to rape.

Person G is the victim of Person H's paedophilic desires. We don't send Person H back in time to when they're eight and make them suffer someone else's paedophilic desires.

The law is above petty "eye for an eye" pseudo-justice. It's about rehabilitation. So I don't get why anyone would be supporting the death penalty. Just because Person I was killed by Person J doesn't mean we should then turn around and kill Person J. It does no good for anyone except satisfying the bloodlust of a few barbaric people.
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:44 AM   #71
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Originally posted by Justin24


I am sorry I dont feel that way. It's my own opinion. If someone killed my brother or any family memeber, that person better get the DP or I will kill him/her myself.

Originally posted by Vincent Vega



And face death penalty.
Exactly, Justin. If you went ahead and killed that person, wouldn't you, by the same logic, deserve the death penalty as well because you didn't respect life?
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:37 AM   #72
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Exactly, Justin. If you went ahead and killed that person, wouldn't you, by the same logic, deserve the death penalty as well because you didn't respect life?
I dont think so. There was a video that I saw where a child molester/murderer who was shot point blank in the head by the father as he walked out of court. The father did not serve any jail time.
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:38 AM   #73
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Bullshit.

What about those of us who have had loved ones murdered and still don't believe in the DP?
Well that's your belief, but you can't out law the DP if people out there still support it as a form of punishment.
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:40 AM   #74
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Originally posted by indra
A scenario/question for those who believe in an eye for an eye:

A person is murdered. A suspect is arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and executed. But a little while later irrefutable proof comes to light that the executed person was innocent.

Who gets executed now?

Remember. An eye for an eye. Oops doesn't cut it. Someone MUST pay. Maybe the people on the jury should be executed. Maybe the prosecutor. Or the cops who arrested the guy. Or the family members of the first victim who were clamoring for the second victim's (because he is not a criminal) execution. Of course the actual executioner is toast.

Who's death assuages the pain and suffering of his (or her) family?
Indra are we talking about today or 15 years ago when we did not use DNA and other new forms of identifying the murderer?
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:40 AM   #75
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Originally posted by jonnytakeawalk


Man what a sick and deppressing world we'd live in if the form of 'justice' your suggesting here was actually in operation.

I personally can't really believe that the death penalty is still existant in some countries. I mean have we progressed at all??? It sometimes feels like we're still living in the dark ages.

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind
That's right. What we are talking about is middle ages.

Some say, punishment only needs to be harder, or more brutally.
No!
If you asked any expert, he would tell you that no criminal, if murderer, rapist, robber or whatever, would ever think about the consequences of his doing while he commits the crime. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.
But when they commit their crimes, they just do it and don't think whether they get caught or would possibly face deatch penalty.

In the middle ages, people were hanged publicly, or if the stole something they lost their hand publicly, which is still happening an some Arab states.
Still, people stole, robbed or murdered. No punishment will ever stop people from commiting any crime. It's an illusion some go after, to think punishment only needs to be harder, so crimes will stop. That never happened and will never happen.


Also, think about the people who then have to do the job of killing the criminals, or like Achtung Bono said, rape them, strangle them or whatever. That's just sick.
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