Florida execution takes much longer than usual

[JCOSTER]

Angela Halem as achtung bono said. I pray that nothing happens to all of us. But how can you live with knowing the person who killed your love one is being fed, has a place to sleep, gets to exercise, watch tv, and I am sure cause more violence in prison? so not only do you spend thousands of dollars to bury your loved one, your still paying to keep this person alive?

Angela I dont want to look like a bad person. I hope you dont think bad of me, but this is my opinion.

^ I agree with Justin, and as someone who has had a relative that was gunned downed in the middle of the street on a cold and rainy December night 20 years ago, I could say I would like to see the person punished. An eye for an eye.
My cousin owed money to a "friend" and didn't pay back in time. They kept extorting money from him as punishment and even took his business. (the money he borrowed was to open his business.)

He was 25 years old with a baby on the way, his son never new his father.

The investigators think they know who committed the crime, but there is a lack of evidence so no arrests were ever made.

If caught, I would gladly be a witness.

I was extremely close with my cousin, he was like an older brother, we grew up together until that night.

It was horrible for a few years thinking that maybe this person would come after other family members, or if you look at someone think maybe it was him etc.

It's very easy to say the death penalty should be abolished, but when you have an experience with a crime that is deserving of it, it is a completely different feeling.

 

[anitram]

It's very easy to say the death penalty should be abolished, but when you have an experience with a crime that is deserving of it, it is a completely different feeling.

And yet plenty of people in that situation still abhor the death penalty.

All this talk of justice - there is no such thing. Somebody murders your mother in cold blood, do you think there is justice for that? There isn't. It's an illusion.

The death penalty is abhorrent. Most of the civilized world has come to recognize it. The company the US is in, frankly, is embarrassing.

 

[Justin24]

And yet plenty of people in that situation still abhor the death penalty.

All this talk of justice - there is no such thing. Somebody murders your mother in cold blood, do you think there is justice for that? There isn't. It's an illusion.

The death penalty is abhorrent. Most of the civilized world has come to recognize it. The company the US is in, frankly, is embarrassing.

Well I pray for you also that nothing happens to you or your family. You can not say anything, unless you went through what JCoster has.

 

[dazzlingamy]

Well I pray for you also that nothing happens to you or your family. You can not say anything, unless you went through what JCoster has.

That is bullshit. You can say whatever you like about anything. Its one person's opinions, doesn't mean its fact, or not fact.

Most people have an imagination and compassion which are two things needed to look at something and judge how you'd feel about it. Yes, i have not had a friend or family member murdered, but i have lost close family and i KNOW that pain. That pain would not be ANY LESS if the person who killed them was also put to death.

Why would the taking of someone elses life, lessen your pain slightly? Or what? make your family/friends death more berable by the fact that the murderer died too? I really REALLY don't understand this line of thinking. Here people are so abborant about death, yet are so quick to say 'kill kill' when it comes to the murderer.

It's not justice, its revenge and it should be legal. The USA really needs to look at what they are accepting as law and focus on changing it!

 

[dazzlingamy]

oh and btw, JC i am sorry for your cousin It must be awful to deal with something like that.

 

[indra]

A scenario/question for those who believe in an eye for an eye:

A person is murdered. A suspect is arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and executed. But a little while later irrefutable proof comes to light that the executed person was innocent.

Who gets executed now?

Remember. An eye for an eye. Oops doesn't cut it. Someone MUST pay. Maybe the people on the jury should be executed. Maybe the prosecutor. Or the cops who arrested the guy. Or the family members of the first victim who were clamoring for the second victim's (because he is not a criminal) execution. Of course the actual executioner is toast.

Who's death assuages the pain and suffering of his (or her) family?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Just is a term of morality, an argument of proportional punishment fits. Of course by that same logic rapists should themselves be punished with rape.

Just is actually the basis of law; an endeavour to meet the conflicts of society, the victim, and the community. Law has an obligational requirement to meet all 3. It's what usually makes a country a liberal and free democracy; not, it seems, the US, though.

Justin, AchtungBono, and others; your views help make you who you are. You wishing to see another life ended, regardless of the compassionate element, place yourselves in the same position as the person who broke the law in the first place.

I'm curious about something else, too. You guys who support the death penalty, what are your views on how the state manages the responsibility of this drastic and incredibly terminal action? Give some thought to the fact that everyone in the justice system are simply regular people. Judges, Magistrates, solicitors, QCs, Correctional Services Officers, departmental suits, etc. They're ordinary people. Think about the discretionary authority these people have. You want these representatives of the state to have this authority to remove a life? Do you understand just how significant it is to even remove someone's freedoms and sentence them to 14 years in gaol? These ordinary regular people spend their working days yielding this incredible power; but there's countries like the US where daily job tasks of certain people require ending the life of someone; of taking the massive leap from this to killing someone. If this cannot sink in and show itself for the sheer ludicrousness that it is, then I'm stumped. You are beyond my comprehension.

 

[BVS]

Well I pray for you also that nothing happens to you or your family. You can not say anything, unless you went through what JCoster has.

Bullshit.

What about those of us who have had loved ones murdered and still don't believe in the DP?

 

[jonnytakeawalk]

If there were any justice in the world then criminals would be punished in the manner in which they committed their crimes - stabbers should be stabbed, stranglers should be strangled, poisoners should be poisoned...etc.

Man what a sick and deppressing world we'd live in if the form of 'justice' your suggesting here was actually in operation.

I personally can't really believe that the death penalty is still existant in some countries. I mean have we progressed at all??? It sometimes feels like we're still living in the dark ages.

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind

 

[Axver]

I don't get this.

Person A's house is robbed by Person B. We don't sentence Person B to have his house robbed and items of an equal value stolen.

Person C commits fraud and fleeces Person D and their family of their savings. We don't sentence Person C and their family to fraud.

Person E rapes Person F. We don't sentence Person E to rape.

Person G is the victim of Person H's paedophilic desires. We don't send Person H back in time to when they're eight and make them suffer someone else's paedophilic desires.

The law is above petty "eye for an eye" pseudo-justice. It's about rehabilitation. So I don't get why anyone would be supporting the death penalty. Just because Person I was killed by Person J doesn't mean we should then turn around and kill Person J. It does no good for anyone except satisfying the bloodlust of a few barbaric people.

 

[the soul waits]

Originally posted by Justin24


I am sorry I dont feel that way. It's my own opinion. If someone killed my brother or any family memeber, that person better get the DP or I will kill him/her myself.

Originally posted by Vincent Vega


And face death penalty.

Exactly, Justin. If you went ahead and killed that person, wouldn't you, by the same logic, deserve the death penalty as well because you didn't respect life?

 

[Justin24]

Exactly, Justin. If you went ahead and killed that person, wouldn't you, by the same logic, deserve the death penalty as well because you didn't respect life?

I dont think so. There was a video that I saw where a child molester/murderer who was shot point blank in the head by the father as he walked out of court. The father did not serve any jail time.

 

[Justin24]

Bullshit.

What about those of us who have had loved ones murdered and still don't believe in the DP?

Well that's your belief, but you can't out law the DP if people out there still support it as a form of punishment.

 

[Justin24]

A scenario/question for those who believe in an eye for an eye:

A person is murdered. A suspect is arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and executed. But a little while later irrefutable proof comes to light that the executed person was innocent.

Who gets executed now?

Remember. An eye for an eye. Oops doesn't cut it. Someone MUST pay. Maybe the people on the jury should be executed. Maybe the prosecutor. Or the cops who arrested the guy. Or the family members of the first victim who were clamoring for the second victim's (because he is not a criminal) execution. Of course the actual executioner is toast.

Who's death assuages the pain and suffering of his (or her) family?

Indra are we talking about today or 15 years ago when we did not use DNA and other new forms of identifying the murderer?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Man what a sick and deppressing world we'd live in if the form of 'justice' your suggesting here was actually in operation.

I personally can't really believe that the death penalty is still existant in some countries. I mean have we progressed at all??? It sometimes feels like we're still living in the dark ages.

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind

That's right. What we are talking about is middle ages.

Some say, punishment only needs to be harder, or more brutally.
No!
If you asked any expert, he would tell you that no criminal, if murderer, rapist, robber or whatever, would ever think about the consequences of his doing while he commits the crime. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.
But when they commit their crimes, they just do it and don't think whether they get caught or would possibly face deatch penalty.

In the middle ages, people were hanged publicly, or if the stole something they lost their hand publicly, which is still happening an some Arab states.
Still, people stole, robbed or murdered. No punishment will ever stop people from commiting any crime. It's an illusion some go after, to think punishment only needs to be harder, so crimes will stop. That never happened and will never happen.


Also, think about the people who then have to do the job of killing the criminals, or like Achtung Bono said, rape them, strangle them or whatever. That's just sick.

 

[Varitek]

Well that's your belief, but you can't out law the DP if people out there still support it as a form of punishment.

Actually, "you" can, or could, if "you" is the Supreme Court or state legislatures. Just because some "people out there" still believe in it doesn't mean it will stick around by default.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Indra are we talking about today or 15 years ago when we did not use DNA and other new forms of identifying the murderer?

Think of how long people in the death penalty row sit in jail on average.

People that get executed now normally were sentenced 12 to 15 years ago.
When we didn't use DNA.
Also, still people get sentenced although they are innocent.
DNA helps us a lot to decrease this number, but will never succeed in diminish the number of innocents 0.

Also you seem to support self-justice.

But don't you think that it's kind of anarchy and pretty dangerous?

 

[the soul waits]

I dont think so. There was a video that I saw where a child molester/murderer who was shot point blank in the head by the father as he walked out of court. The father did not serve any jail time.

Oh, so you can kill people and get away with it but not the murderer of your loved one?

 

[JCOSTER]

Bullshit.

What about those of us who have had loved ones murdered and still don't believe in the DP?

Everyones feelings are different, and to tell you the truth, I wish my feelings were different about the issue as well. I applaud your belief and say you are bigger than me. I didn't want to become the same type of monster that killed a family member.

I do however, have forgiven this person and would still like to see a punishment one day.

Has anyone thought of how long it took the person to die that was being murdered.
Did it happen quickly, or did the person have time to have their life flash before them and think of leaving their loved ones and what will happen to them when they are gone?

My cousin laid in the wet street, before someone knew he was even there and thats where he died. That was not his decision, but the person who pulled the trigger.

The death penalty is the cowardly way out, 9 out of 10 times its quick and easy.

The person who has to have the fear, and all the thoughts that go with dying in a brutal way are the brave ones.

 

[financeguy]

You want these representatives of the state to have this authority to remove a life? Do you understand just how significant it is to even remove someone's freedoms and sentence them to 14 years in gaol? These ordinary regular people spend their working days yielding this incredible power; but there's countries like the US where daily job tasks of certain people require ending the life of someone; of taking the massive leap from this to killing someone. If this cannot sink in and show itself for the sheer ludicrousness that it is, then I'm stumped. You are beyond my comprehension.

Those various state functionaries you listed are exercising this power only as a form of delegated authority, excercising the will of the people as it were. It is not a power within their personal ambit to exercise.

The death penalty in my view should be available as the ultimate sanction.

 

[BVS]

Well that's your belief, but you can't out law the DP if people out there still support it as a form of punishment.

That's insane logic. That's like saying you can't outlaw cutting off theives hands if there are still some who support it. You can't outlaw segregation if some people out there still support it...

Be consistent, you aren't being consistent with the argument you presented anitram...

 

[indra]

Indra are we talking about today or 15 years ago when we did not use DNA and other new forms of identifying the murderer?

Are you are seriously suggesting that there is no possibility that anyone convicted now could be possibly be ever found to be innocent in the future?

The people wrongly convicted years ago were convicted by people who thought there wasn't a shadow of a doubt either. And in 5, 10, 15 years from now there will be further advances which will make many of the tests we now think of as foolproof obsolete. Some of these are tests which results you are accepting as proof allowing someone to be executed.

And I still want to know who you think should be executed for the people wrongly convicted and executed.

 

[BVS]

I dont think so. There was a video that I saw where a child molester/murderer who was shot point blank in the head by the father as he walked out of court. The father did not serve any jail time.

"A Time To Kill" good movie, but he still commited murder. No matter how horrible the victim was, it's still murder. He should have done time.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

That's insane logic. That's like saying you can't outlaw cutting off theives hands if there are still some who support it. You can't outlaw segregation if some people out there still support it...

Be consistent, you aren't being consistent with the argument you presented anitram...

In Honduras we had a dictatorship about 50 years ago. Thieves did get their hands cut off if caught stealing. There were very harsh laws at the time and I might even agree it was barbaric.

But, you know what? It worked. My grandparents tell stories about how you could sleep with your door open at night. You could leave your stuff out in the lawn and no one would take it.

I really wish human rights wouldn't be such an obstacle for harsh punishments. It would give everybody a safer enviornment to live in.

My house has been burglarized about twice already and one was about 2 or 3 months ago. If you asked me I wouldn't think twice about cutting those thieves hands off. I'd do it myself and with a not-so-sharp knife so it would hurt the thieves more.

If you don't plan on commiting any crimes any time soon then I don't see what your problem is against death penalty because it won't happen to you.

Don't want to get the death sentence? DON'T COMMIT ANY CRIMES.

It's really that simple.

 

[JCOSTER]

^

 

[Angela Harlem]

Those various state functionaries you listed are exercising this power only as a form of delegated authority, excercising the will of the people as it were. It is not a power within their personal ambit to exercise.

The death penalty in my view should be available as the ultimate sanction.

And you want to give these people in their daily working lives the power and authority to execute citizens? This very same government we cry out against if they wish to read our emails or track what library books we borrow? You want to give them the absolute authority over lifeitself?

 

[BVS]

In Honduras we had a dictatorship about 50 years ago. Thieves did get their hands cut off if caught stealing. There were very harsh laws at the time and I might even agree it was barbaric.

But, you know what? It worked. My grandparents tell stories about how you could sleep with your door open at night. You could leave your stuff out in the lawn and no one would take it.

I really wish human rights wouldn't be such an obstacle for harsh punishments. It would give everybody a safer enviornment to live in.

My house has been burglarized about twice already and one was about 2 or 3 months ago. If you asked me I wouldn't think twice about cutting those thieves hands off. I'd do it myself and with a not-so-sharp knife so it would hurt the thieves more.

If you don't plan on commiting any crimes any time soon then I don't see what your problem is against death penalty because it won't happen to you.

Don't want to get the death sentence? DON'T COMMIT ANY CRIMES.

It's really that simple.

This has to one of the most narrow views I've seen in awhile. What about all those impovershed parents that suffered under the dictatorship who stole bread so their children can live? I bet they deserved their hands cut off... This view ignores so many factors it's not even funny...

What are you going to do when you are framed for murder, you still going to support the death penalty? Oh, but it would never happen to you, so who cares? But it does happen, then what?

I'm glad you aren't running a country.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Don't want to get the death sentence? DON'T COMMIT ANY CRIMES.

It's really that simple.

Are you at all familiar with statistics on inmates? You must be aware that most criminals' intelligence is so low that it borders on intellectual disability, right? You do realise also, that gaols are filled with inmates who have grown up in environments which render them useless at making choices and decisions in their lives which we all take for granted, right? You do realise the path to a life of crime begins before adulthood, right? You do realise that rehabilitiation is not solely about learning the offender of the wrongness of their ways, but more learning the tools in which to successfully lead a stable life?

 

[dazzlingamy]

and just a side note tot hat - do you SEE crimes diminishing due to this death penalty? No. So its obviously not working and therefore this whole 'fear of dying to stop you murdering' is bullshit and therefore needs to be STOPPED.

I just cannot for the LIFE of me understand that people could feel justified taking the life of someone because they took the life of someone. Do you not see they are exactly the same?!

 

[Axver]

In Honduras we had a dictatorship about 50 years ago. Thieves did get their hands cut off if caught stealing. There were very harsh laws at the time and I might even agree it was barbaric.

But, you know what? It worked. My grandparents tell stories about how you could sleep with your door open at night. You could leave your stuff out in the lawn and no one would take it.

Your example doesn't work. You want to know why?

Back when my mother - not my grandmother, my mother - was a teenager some thirty years ago in New Zealand, you could leave your house and your car unlocked in my hometown and nothing would happen to it. Same situation there as what you just described as happening in your grandparent's day in Honduras. Twenty years later, when I was a boy, you locked your house and car as a matter of course. So, same situation as you, going from a society with a perceived lack of thievery to one where you took precautions, and you want to know the critical difference? In New Zealand, the death penalty had ceased to be used as a punishment even when my mother was a teenager (I believe we used it a total of eight times in our history) and we never chopped off criminals' hands. So what's your amazing explanation for the similar experiences despite dissimilar punishments?

I really wish human rights wouldn't be such an obstacle for harsh punishments. It would give everybody a safer enviornment to live in.

This is one of the most absurd comments I've read on FYM. Yeah, damn those human rights, getting in the way of your bloodlust! It's long since been proven that your bloodthirsty idea of justice does not act as a deterrent. Multiple posters have emphasised and demonstrated this. Why don't you start listening? Is it truly impossible to reason with people like you who have mindsets that are so blatantly barbaric?