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Old 12-18-2006, 06:11 PM   #181
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Yes, but no one here on the forum has this attitude.

I take position against death sentence, they take position for the one that gets killed.
Like the others in this thread as far as I understand them.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:14 PM   #182
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angela please tell me how you would stop murders from happening if you dont want that person executed in the end for doing it?

Why did europeans stop executing people, for henious crimes?

BVS I dont think my words are discusting I think it's reality.
There's theories about it, one of the most prominant is that the path of criminality is the product of failed informal systems. Our informal systems are our families, our schools, our neighbourhoods, etc. There's a distinct trend, or stereotype, if you will, of the average neighbourhood offender who is the product of a broken home, has parents or other immediate family with drug and alcohol dependencies, an all too familiar relationship with the court system, juvenile justice, the equivilent department of family and community services, little or inadequate schooling, perhaps even to the point of intellectual handicap, lack of stability, lack of financial security, the list goes on. There's a whole slew of others, such as white collar and corporate criminals who's backgrounds trends are as varied as the crimes themselves. However, with this garden variety murderer, there's a lifetime of failed systems which build us to be conscientious and generally law abiding. Of course having money or security is no guarantee, but it makes a big difference. Alternatively, not having those things does not mean you are doomed to fail. We do, however, learn from what we see and live with. It is a long process which gets you from being born equal to everyone else, to sitting in the dock of a cold and clinical courtroom where the laws are not going to look at you personally a great deal - as anitram alluded to earlier when she described the disconnect with the crime itself.

As ot how we can actually stop people murdering, there is no one way. Execution is certainly no solution, nor successful method of promoting prevention. Regarldess of what action anyone takes to work on preventative measures, the facts on capital punishment remain. The crimes and the existence of them do nothing to change what capital punishment is.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:14 PM   #183
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Originally posted by Justin24
I am not saying you are not holding one, but hear in the bay area many do.
This really doesn't have anything to do with how or why one supports the DP.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:19 PM   #184
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You guys win............... from now on when I hear of a horrendous murder. I know it wont be worth executing the fucker.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:21 PM   #185
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


There's theories about it, one of the most prominant is that the path of criminality is the product of failed informal systems. Our informal systems are our families, our schools, our neighbourhoods, etc. There's a distinct trend, or stereotype, if you will, of the average neighbourhood offender who is the product of a broken home, has parents or other immediate family with drug and alcohol dependencies, an all too familiar relationship with the court system, juvenile justice, the equivilent department of family and community services, little or inadequate schooling, perhaps even to the point of intellectual handicap, lack of stability, lack of financial security, the list goes on. There's a whole slew of others, such as white collar and corporate criminals who's backgrounds trends are as varied as the crimes themselves. However, with this garden variety murderer, there's a lifetime of failed systems which build us to be conscientious and generally law abiding. Of course having money or security is no guarantee, but it makes a big difference. Alternatively, not having those things does not mean you are doomed to fail. We do, however, learn from what we see and live with. It is a long process which gets you from being born equal to everyone else, to sitting in the dock of a cold and clinical courtroom where the laws are not going to look at you personally a great deal - as anitram alluded to earlier when she described the disconnect with the crime itself.

As ot how we can actually stop people murdering, there is no one way. Execution is certainly no solution, nor successful method of promoting prevention. Regarldess of what action anyone takes to work on preventative measures, the facts on capital punishment remain. The crimes and the existence of them do nothing to change what capital punishment is.
Angela I really respect your views alot.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:28 PM   #186
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Angela I really respect your views alot.
Thanks Justin. I dont want you to think that I'm trying to say there's no value in your empathy for the victims of crime. I'd hope you dont lose that. It's plain and simple compassion. I think vincent and anitram and bvs are the same, though, that whatever views we have are not directly connected to our responses to horrific crimes; but about state sanctioned executions being just.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:33 PM   #187
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That's basically it.

I would feel very sick if anyone said I wouldn't feel for the victims only because I don't support executions.
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:03 PM   #188
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You guys win............... from now on when I hear of a horrendous murder. I know it wont be worth executing the fucker.
I'm glad we've come to an understanding.
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:09 PM   #189
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'm glad we've come to an understanding.
hahhahaha!
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:43 PM   #190
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What if the culprit is known to be guilty without a shadow of a doubt? Like a confession or being caught in fraganti? In that 5% of cases what's your case against a death penalty?
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:08 PM   #191
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IT doesn't matter if they were caught actually committing the murder, they still shouldn't be killed by law.

Although the not knowing 100% is a good argument and something i agree with, its not my main point of why i don't agree.

See there are always going to be bad people in this world. Maybe its because of how they were raised, maybe its just life that fucked them up (booze drugs etc), who knows how some people get to where they are, but there are NEVER going to not be any murderers, crime may diminish but it will never go away. Nothing is a deterrant, even the death penalty!

My whole point is - we are so disgusted with murder, how can someone take someone elses life - how dare they! but then we turn around and say 'oh now its your turn to die'
do you see taking away emotion and eye for an eye, how STUPID that idea is! To kill for killing someone?

I don't believe all can be rehabilitated, and i'd much prefer them to sit in gaol the rest of their lives - maybe this is my 'revenge' feeling. I don't feel compassion for the murderer, but i also don't think that they should be killed - it doesn't sit right with me.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:17 PM   #192
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We don't arbitrarily say "it's your turn to die". If you KNOW the consequences of your actions beforehand then it is assumed that you accept them as well ...even if it's your own death.

How is anybody else responsible besides oneself? Sounds like a suicide to me.
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:01 PM   #193
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
What if the culprit is known to be guilty without a shadow of a doubt? Like a confession or being caught in fraganti? In that 5% of cases what's your case against a death penalty?
Not even confessions are 100%. Ever heard of the Jon Benet Ramsey case?
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:03 PM   #194
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And in fraganti?
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:09 PM   #195
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And in fraganti?
Show me a case.
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