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Old 12-18-2006, 05:46 PM   #166
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Our legal system, and in particular, criminal law, does not hinge on what is disgusting and so on. It's actually very interesting for me, when I entered law school to see that most people were morally outraged during essentially the entirety of our criminal law classes. It makes sense given the exceptional sort of cases we would read.

But you know what's even more interesting? That after months of reading these cases and discussing the principles and looking at the evolution of law, there is very little moral outrage left. That's because you start to see the system for what it is, and you realize how fallible it is, and you also realize that moral outrage has no place in our court rooms. It is a dangerous slippery slope for us to allow our outrage to dictate the terms of the justice system.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:47 PM   #167
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Look at how many people get killed in the US each year.

Think death penalty really makes the difference?
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:49 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Our legal system, and in particular, criminal law, does not hinge on what is disgusting and so on. It's actually very interesting for me, when I entered law school to see that most people were morally outraged during essentially the entirety of our criminal law classes. It makes sense given the exceptional sort of cases we would read.

But you know what's even more interesting? That after months of reading these cases and discussing the principles and looking at the evolution of law, there is very little moral outrage left. That's because you start to see the system for what it is, and you realize how fallible it is, and you also realize that moral outrage has no place in our court rooms. It is a dangerous slippery slope for us to allow our outrage to dictate the terms of the justice system.
pretty interesting. Do you still have supporters of the DP in Canada or are they more anti-dp?
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:50 PM   #169
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Then let's close the jails since there is no 100% proof. what should we do with them?? roam the streets, put them in rehabe(hahaha)

Send them to China............................................

Don't kill them?

Substitute it by life sentence, where chances are better that his innocence gets proven? Or not.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:51 PM   #170
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BVS I dont think my words are discusting I think it's reality.
Well that pains me to hear.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:51 PM   #171
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Don't kill them?

Substitute it by life sentence, where chances are better that his innocence gets proven? Or not.
Ok but then what would you say to students who ditch school to protest over more jails than fixing the educational system?
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:52 PM   #172
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Why did I come to this conclusion? Because for me executing a murderer who has been convicted and all proof is 100% is the right thing. I am no less human for believing in this. I dont go to vigils at deathrow or anything. I let people have there own view.
HOW did you come to the conclusion? Is it based on your emotional response to murder? It sure sounds like it.


Also, Justin, dont go the most drastic contra conclusion you can. It weakens your argument to the point of voiding it. No one here has the candle-lit vigil position for the offender. You are the one focusing on your rage and hatred of the offender, and your sympathy for the victim. Me and others having a different point of view does NOT mean that we must automatically feel pity and warmth for the offender. It, for US, is not about the offender. It is a belief which is based on the first principle of everyone having the right to life, that justice is about humanely responding to those who break this law in the most humane way possible. Which leads me to my next point; this view you have that prison is some holiday is not only wrong, but laughable. Have you ever stepped foot in a prison? Have you ever read casestudies on inmates before? Are you aware, even, of the processes which takes someone from arrest to sentencing? Focus on some larger issues here, other than your disgust at what criminals do. If you want to feed that disgust, let me know. I can cite a sickening number of crimes in my area which never made the media. I'm sure we can dig around the internet and find some for yur area, too. However, it wont do any good. The issue is the inherent wrongness of removing life.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:54 PM   #173
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The Canadian population is largely anti-death penalty. The issue is really closed here, it's never really up for political debate because there is no real support for it by the public.

I can understand why people would be outraged at violent crime, particularly things like murder, rape and so on. But moral outrage really doesn't belong in our courtrooms. Because you have to remember there are always segments of the population that will be morally outraged at something. Maybe the way you have sex with your wife, maybe the fact you drive a polluting SUV, maybe the fact you eat meat and wear leather, maybe that you're gay, maybe that you're dating someone of a different race, maybe that you're a Muslim or a Jew, etc. If we allow people's moral outrage to dictate how our justice system operates, it will affect not those whom you consider criminals, but all the rest of us. And that is why, if you want to have a death penalty debate, and you can base your argument on something like deterrence and provide facts to back it up, that is one thing. But if you are arguing for the death penalty because you are disgusted or outraged, that is very poor argument to have, and you will find vehement opposition even from people who may tend to agree with your value judgment.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:55 PM   #174
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


HOW did you come to the conclusion? Is it based on your emotional response to murder? It sure sounds like it.


Also, Justin, dont go the most drastic contra conclusion you can. It weakens your argument to the point of voiding it. No one here has the candle-lit vigil position for the offender. You are the one focusing on your rage and hatred of the offender, and your sympathy for the victim. Me and others having a different point of view does NOT mean that we must automatically feel pity and warmth for the offender. It, for US, is not about the offender. It is a belief which is based on the first principle of everyone having the right to life, that justice is about humanely responding to those who break this law in the most humane way possible. Which leads me to my next point; this view you have that prison is some holiday is not only wrong, but laughable. Have you ever stepped foot in a prison? Have you ever read casestudies on inmates before? Are you aware, even, of the processes which takes someone from arrest to sentencing? Focus on some larger issues here, other than your disgust at what criminals do. If you want to feed that disgust, let me know. I can cite a sickening number of crimes in my area which never made the media. I'm sure we can dig around the internet and find some for yur area, too. However, it wont do any good. The issue is the inherent wrongness of removing life.
Angela. I would like you to come to San Quinten next time there is an excution planned and you will see people holding candle light vigils for the murderer.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:56 PM   #175
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Originally posted by Justin24


Then let's close the jails since there is no 100% proof. what should we do with them?? roam the streets, put them in rehabe(hahaha)

Send them to China............................................
Why such extreme response, is it because you realize the corner you've painted yourself in?

You give me reason beyond doubt and I have no problem with them spending life in prison, and if evidence shows later they are innocent then at least they are still alive to be released from prison. You kill them and that will never happen.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:57 PM   #176
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Ok but then what would you say to students who ditch school to protest over more jails than fixing the educational system?
Who cares, that is free speech and completely another subject.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:58 PM   #177
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Ok but then what would you say to students who ditch school to protest over more jails than fixing the educational system?
I think it was said before that death sentence doesn't solve the problem with jail capacity.

Think of how many people get sentenced each year, set free each year, and executed each year, and you'll find out that you would have to kill a lot of people to actually ease the jails.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:58 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
The Canadian population is largely anti-death penalty. The issue is really closed here, it's never really up for political debate because there is no real support for it by the public.

I can understand why people would be outraged at violent crime, particularly things like murder, rape and so on. But moral outrage really doesn't belong in our courtrooms. Because you have to remember there are always segments of the population that will be morally outraged at something. Maybe the way you have sex with your wife, maybe the fact you drive a polluting SUV, maybe the fact you eat meat and wear leather, maybe that you're gay, maybe that you're dating someone of a different race, maybe that you're a Muslim or a Jew, etc. If we allow people's moral outrage to dictate how our justice system operates, it will affect not those whom you consider criminals, but all the rest of us. And that is why, if you want to have a death penalty debate, and you can base your argument on something like deterrence and provide facts to back it up, that is one thing. But if you are arguing for the death penalty because you are disgusted or outraged, that is very poor argument to have, and you will find vehement opposition even from people who may tend to agree with your value judgment.
Thanks Anitram for the input.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:05 PM   #179
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Angela. I would like you to come to San Quinten next time there is an excution planned and you will see people holding candle light vigils for the murderer.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

No one here has the candle-lit vigil position for the offender.

Read again please.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:07 PM   #180
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I am not saying you are not holding one, but hear in the bay area many do.
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