Flier Claims Southwest Attendant Played Fashion Police

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diamond said:

Noooo, I listened to her interview, studied her demeanor, even after all of this, did you?

Well your initial post said nothing about the interview (and everything about her "skanky" clothes), but now you are saying that's what you made your judgment on? So which is it really? Yes I saw her Today interview and I couldn't form any judgment about her character, attitude, and respect-other than she seemed like a pleasant person and had a lovely smile. That's about it. I guess you are a qualified expert in media analysis of people or something, just based upon one interview.

And yes, you should refrain from calling people here "imbeciles". I believe that's probably against the rules.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:


Well your initial post said nothing about the interview (and everything about her "skanky" clothes), but now you are saying that's what you made your judgment on? So which is it really? Yes I saw her Today interview and I couldn't form any judgment about her character, attitude, and respect-other than she seemed like a pleasant person and had a lovely smile. That's about it. I guess you are a qualified expert in media analysis of people or something, just based upon one interview.

And yes, you should refrain from calling people here "imbeciles". I believe that's probably against the rules.

Well based more on the facts of the case as they unfolded and her interview I side w the airline.

We view this differently, and I think she had her skirt hiked up made a stink about it and got her just desserts.

Now she's all over the media trying to play the victim and some people like you are gobbling it up.

And if a dinkus male dancer jumped on the plane and his appearance were deemed offensive he should be treated in the same manner.

And to attempt to extrapolate the argument to religions such as Mormonism, somebody wearing a Mormon T Shirt, or a Muslim dressed in Muslim attire to skanky dressers is quite a stretch and only shows a weak minded argument.

dbs
 
diamond said:

And to attempt to extrapolate the argument to religions such as Mormonism, somebody wearing a Mormon T Shirt, or a Muslim dressed in Muslim attire to skanky dressers is quite a stretch and only shows a weak minded argument.

It still comes down to clothing and one person's interpretation of what's offensive and what's not. It still comes down to a subjective call, not an objective one.

You can't see the correlation or answer the questions, so you resort to name calling like most of your posts and most 4th graders, that's what's weak minded.
 
Owning an airline, guess what? You get to make subjective calls, so get over it.

You have other options in this country for mode of travel, and I would encouage you to dress appropiately there too, or you can try wearing a thong and riding your bike down Main Street and see how far you'd make it with your Jonny Cash attitude.

dbs
 
diamond said:

We view this differently, and I think she had her skirt hiked up made a stink about it and got her just desserts.

Now she's all over the media trying to play the victim and some people like you are gobbling it up.

"People like me"? Is that codespeak? How clever.

You think she had her skirt hiked up and made a stink-that is what you think. What are the "more facts" and the facts from the interview that made you side with the airline? So if these facts exist, why resort to calling her dress style "skanky" and making all of your other judgments? If such facts exist, that isn't necessary-right?

If airlines get to make subjective calls then Mitt Romney t-shirt problems could be right around the corner. Personally I'd rather look at a crotch.

Johnny Cash was a pretty incredible human being, he was well aware of his own faults and failings and not judgmental of others. I don't know why you have to resort to bringing him into it at all, it's completely irrelevant.
 
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MrsSpringsteen said:

If airlines get to make subjective calls then Mitt Romney t-shirt problems could be right around the corner. Personally I'd rather look at a crotch.
I just did a quick google search

and judging by the number of respective websites -
you are in the over-whelming majority.

(not me:no: - I have net nanny on my comp)

angelaH - stop picking on me.
 
diamond said:


Well based more on the facts of the case as they unfolded and her interview I side w the airline.

We view this differently, and I think she had her skirt hiked up made a stink about it and got her just desserts.

Now she's all over the media trying to play the victim and some people like you are gobbling it up.

And if a dinkus male dancer jumped on the plane and his appearance were deemed offensive he should be treated in the same manner.

And to attempt to extrapolate the argument to religions such as Mormonism, somebody wearing a Mormon T Shirt, or a Muslim dressed in Muslim attire to skanky dressers is quite a stretch and only shows a weak minded argument.

dbs

I certainly don't think she even thought there was a problem with her attire upon boarding the airline. I don't know where you get the idea that she thought to herself, "I'll dress inappropriately and make a stink if anyone disagrees." Maybe I'm misinterpreting your thoughts, but that's the jist I get with your "hiked up" comment.

And, as BVS said, this person didn't own the airline, so I don't understand what you're saying.
 
diamond said:


Noooo, I listened to her interview, studied her demeanor, even after all of this, did you?

Yes, but without your sexist attitude, so that explains the different conclusion reached.
 
anitram said:


Yes, but without your sexist attitude, so that explains the different conclusion reached.

reread the thread ms conclusion-jumper.
i would throw off the chipendale's dink too.

your rush to judgement speaks volumes.

dbs
 
MrsSpringsteen said:


I wonder what would happen if a guy who works at Chippendales tried to fly to a Chippendales show in his outfit? Or just wore a skimpy pair of shorts and no shirt. Are men required to wear shirts? If it was then discovered that he worked at Chippendales (if he was just wearing those shorts, or shorts and a lil tank), what would people think?

She wasn't going to work...she was going for a day trip to her doctor!

I doubt the chippendales dancer without a shirt would make it to the security line in his shorts and no t-shirt (similar to 7-Eleven and MOST places, a shirt is usually asked of patrons in airports).

After someone from an airline (or the airport police, in this case) told he was not going to fly in that outift and he then made a big stink and went on the today Show with a lawyer and his mother, he would probably have a JOKE THREAD about him in Lemonade Stand, not so rediculous thread in FYM! ESPECIALLY if he worked at Chipendales!

By the way, I don't think you can bring children to chippendales....unlike Hooters. Nevermind, i don't know much about their hot wings. And, everytime I have been to Hooters, There was no tipping the servers in their orange shorts (I assume you can do that with the gentleman in thongs at the place you described).
 
Plenty of articles I've seen on this story, including the one I linked to earlier, have referred to the attendant's agreeing to let her back on after she pulled down her skirt, raised her shirt, and buttoned her shrug. I don't know whether that info came from her or the airline, but I haven't seen where she's denied it. So really none of us know what her outfit looked like when she first boarded, which makes evaulating the attendant's judgment presumptuous as well. It looked to me on the Today clip like she had the skirt pulled as low on her hips as it could possibly go, the shrug buttoned, and the shirt resting looser and higher on her torso rather than taut and stretched out--for that occasion, anyway. It's hard to analogize any man's clothing item I can think of--ultra-low-slung baggy pants?--to a hiked-up micromini where likelihood of underwear exposure is concerned. I don't know that that's really what the flight attendant was reacting to--like anyone else I can only guess, but that would be my guess.

Personally I wouldn't have been bothered by it, I agree it would be helpful if their clothing guidelines were more detailed, and I agree asking someone to just cover up with a blanket is preferable to kicking them off. But it's not news that airlines have policies concerning customer conduct--I don't sit down and read through them every time either, but to me it's just common knowledge and common sense that airplanes aren't a smart place to push the envelope. The reason I gave examples of employee dress codes earlier was simply to illustrate that you can't anticipate everything people might try to get away with. Passengers getting drunk during the course of the flight is reasonable cause for complaint, but that's different from boarding drunk. Parents letting their child throw stuff, continuously kick seats, or run freely down the aisle screaming is reasonable cause for complaint, but that's different from expecting a toddler to sit silently with their hands folded in their lap the entire time. I've never heard of a man trying to board an ordinary commercial flight shirtless. I've seen catalogs use "bikini top" to refer to everything from the kind that looks like pasties on a string to the 'tankini' kind that extends down to the bellybutton, probably hence the vague "we don't have a problem if it covers all the right spots" answer. I think some of these counterexamples may be sort of grasping at straws. Either airlines have the right, as fancy restaurants do, to impose broad expectations that customers' clothing not be "lewd" or "patently offensive" or they don't, and if they do, I just don't see where she has a case. Especially since, in the end, she was allowed back on after adjusting her clothing.

Frankly I find it hard to care much about this case from either end though.

And, yeah, what's the point of having your mother accompany you onto the Today Show (and apparently be the one to file your customer complaint, too) anyhow? Was that another one of those 'helicopter parent' things? That was just weird.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
If someone's size makes the next seat unusable we have a problem. Of course my post doesn't define the exact problem, my post isn't a legal document, it's just some meaningless post on the internet. I understand that situations are different, but better definition and actually having access to these regulations needs to be done, before such actions are made.

Most frequent fliers will tell you that they OFTEN have thought that the person next them has made their seat unusable. I have spent hours on planes with some guy's elbow in my ribs.

And the rules ARE accesible...the majority of tickets are purchased online. If you can purchase a ticket online, you can find the Contract of Carriage. If you purchase over the phone, they send you an itinerary with the Contract of Carriage included.
 
Yolland spells out the argument clearly.:up:
Notice I didn't personally label anybody an imbecile, only their line of thinking.

However your warning is acknowledged, and I will do my best to exercise a bit more restraint.

dbs
 
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zoney! said:


Most frequent fliers will tell you that they OFTEN have thought that the person next them has made their seat unusable. I have spent hours on planes with some guy's elbow in my ribs.

I'm not talking about being uncomfortable, I'm talking about someone who has to put the arm rest up in order to sit...
 
this entire thing is silly.

it was silly for the airline to throw her off... her outfit is as offensive as that johnny cash avatar... i.e. not offensive whatsoever.

it's silly for us to debate it so vociferously.

this isn't some debate for women's rights or civil rights or lefts and rights or david wrights.

some schmuck got over zelous and took someone off a plane who he/she probably shouldn't have.

[/story]
 
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diamond said:
The airline has a right to enforce their dress code and the Hooters' gal in question should understand that if she dresses like a skank, there may be repucussions, it's not her right do so, only unless she owns the airline-which she doesn't.

So she deserves to be publicly humiliated for wearing a short skirt while headed on a plane to a city where it's probably 110 degrees in the shade this time of year?

Lovely. :|
 
Another perfect example of outdated, sexist thinking. Her Hooters job is completely irrelevant and the "skank" is hardly informative of anything. But it's exactly what we used to see 30 years ago in rape trials, and while most of us seem to have mentally progressed from that type of "thinking," there are clearly still some holdouts.
 
It's funny how many have misconstrued my statements.

Never called the girl a skank.

I did say she dressed liked one, and that is all I said.

Her attitude in the press hasn't helped her cause, only maybe on Geraldo perhaps.

dbs
 
I think the arguments regarding the airline's right to make judgement calls regarding dress etc are correct.

I just think that the flight attendant made a poor judgement call. A better call would have been a gentle request to use a blanket. The hauling off the plane, the being told to go home and change is a little much given the circumstances (despite the fact she was eventually let on).

It appears to me that Southwest decided blowing off her complaint was more cost effective than the disciplining/firing an employee over a one time incident. My experience with the airlines (and other large corporations) is that if they don't have to address your complaint they won't. (And by "have to" I mean, that not addressing the complaint will cost them money). They knew they were safe, legally, based on the Contract of Carriage and so they blew her off. It appears she thought that by seeking publicity she might be able to get the company to address her complaint in order to deflect the negative PR. It doesn't appear to have worked.

I doubt she set out to seek publicity. If that were her goal she would have worn something truly outlandish--like,say, a bikini, and started seeking publicity immediately, not waiting for two months.

I think she would have been better off letting it go though. On something this "mild" there is no way you'll ever win against a big company.
 
diamond said:
It's funny how many have misconstrued my statements.

Never called the girl a skank.

I did say she dressed liked one, and that is all I said.

"Your honour, I am not submitting that the complainant is a whore. Only that she behaved like one on the day in question."
 
diamond said:

Notice I didn't personally label anybody an imbecile, only their line of thinking.

Really?

She would probably think it would be ok to wear her work uniform to Mass, and claim discrimination if she were ask to leave and some imbeciles here would attempt to defend her 'right of expression'.

Where does it say anything like that here? Even if it was only our line of thinking it's still wrong, uncalled for, and rude.

Letting your nasty insults fly, then trying to revise your way out of it after the fact, doesn't wash. It's not just this thread, it's a consistent pattern. Posting in any thread just to insult people is juvenile and nasty, no?
 
anitram said:
Another perfect example of outdated, sexist thinking. Her Hooters job is completely irrelevant and the "skank" is hardly informative of anything. But it's exactly what we used to see 30 years ago in rape trials, and while most of us seem to have mentally progressed from that type of "thinking," there are clearly still some holdouts.

I agree, and that's why this issue matters to me.
 
OK so to sum it up, Sean is correct (as usual), and so is Headache. And siding with the corporate giant over a young girl who did nothing more than dress for hot weather is kind of like going to a casino and rooting for the dealer.
 
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