Flag burning??? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-04-2005, 09:38 AM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Re: Re: Flag burning???

Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


I'm not a scout, but I was taught the same thing. I mean, we didn't actually burn or bury the flag, but it was to get us to show some respect. As a child I was always super careful w/ our large flag if was helping my dad put it up. If the flag stand broke, we'd make sure it wouldn't fall. We were/are also very considerate of my grandpa's folded flag (the one the family gets when a soldier dies) and I don't think that flag has ever been on the ground or unfolded. In that case, it's more of our showing respect towards my grandpa and what he had to go through as such a young man (18) serving in WWII and helping to liberate a concentration camp. I suppose for me it's more about showing respect to our leaders and soldiers than being obsessively patriotic. It is probably mroe significant when the flags themselves have a deeper meaning.


Ceremonial burning to retire a flag (as opposed to throwing away in the trash) is quite different than your garden variety of street protest burning.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 10:19 AM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,255
Local Time: 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Before we start another flame war here (pun intended), let's remember one thing:

American flags are burned publically maybe once or twice a decade, at most. Getting all furious over something that happens so infrequently isn't worth our effort.

Melon
Thank you.

I personally wouldn't think to burn a flag, but if someone else wished to, that's their choice.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 06-04-2005, 10:21 AM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Re: Flag burning???

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Ok I have a question.

It seems these days burning the US flag is probably the biggest sin one can commit to their country. It use to be that burning the flag was a sign of protest now it will guarantee you a seat in prison.

But here's my question. Years ago, many many years ago I was a boy scout and we were taught that if a flag touches the ground or is torn etc that to properly "bury" the flag your duty was to burn the flag. Now to all you boy scouts out there, am I remembering this wrong or was that the case? Have things changed now?
well

the reason people react so differently to the burning of the flag

is the intend


If I cut someone open
I will go to jail

When my neighbor cuts someone open he gets paid big bucks. Yes, he is a surgeon.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 10:31 AM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Hmmm...somehow I don't think it was conservatives that prosecuted Chuck Spingola for burning a flag during a protest in Columbus Ohio - the gay pride flag. He was convicted, by the way.

Are these comparisons not well thought out?



if I burn some wood
in my yard, no crime

if I burn two pieces of wood (cross)
on someone's lawn
mixed race, Jewish, or other minority
it is a hate crime.




Likewise, a kid painting his name on a wall
is not the same as painting swastikas and the words "Die Jews" on a synagogue wall - a hate crime


It comes down to the intend
and impact on targeted victims
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 10:43 AM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep



Are these comparisons not well thought out?



if I burn some wood
in my yard, no crime

if I burn two pieces of wood (cross)
on someone's lawn
mixed race, Jewish, or other minority
it is a hate crime.

That was not the situation in Chuck's case.

In Columbus, Ohio, when a group of Homosexuals tried to force out the minorities in a neighborhood and make it their own community, Chuck Spaginola held a protest, on public streets, and burned the gay pride flag. He was arrested but acquited of the charges. Later, however, the acquital was overturned because the act wasn't deemed protectable as free speech.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 10:49 AM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
In Columbus, Ohio, when a group of Homosexuals tried to force out the minorities in a neighborhood and make it their own community, Chuck Spaginola held a protest, on public streets, and burned the gay pride flag. He was arrested but acquited of the charges. Later, however, the acquital was overturned because the act wasn't deemed protectable as free speech.
I have no sympathy for heteros and the cancer they are to our communities.

But for the record, gays have been arrested for protesting in churches. Should that be protectable free speech?

Likewise, if blacks start moving into a community, would it be acceptable to burn a cross in front of them as protest?

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:17 AM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


That was not the situation in Chuck's case.

In Columbus, Ohio, when a group of Homosexuals tried to force out the minorities in a neighborhood and make it their own community, Chuck Spaginola held a protest, on public streets, and burned the gay pride flag. He was arrested but acquited of the charges. Later, however, the acquital was overturned because the act wasn't deemed protectable as free speech.


that's your version


i found this one


Quote:
Charles Spingola, aka, Preacher Chuck

Spingola spends his time attempting to intimidate gay, lesbian and bisexual men and women. Spingola threw Bibles at marchers at the recent Gay Pride March, burned the rainbow flag in front of the King Avenue Methodist Church that was holding an ecumenical service as part of the Stonewall Gay Pride holiday and demanded that “Faggots repent!” He spews his hate in name of Jesus, and quotes the Bible to cover his obvious eclectic sexual yearnings. You’ll find Spingola conveniently citing Leviticus 20:13 calling men laying with men an “abomination,” but you’ll never find him harassing pork eaters who are also referred to in Leviticus as an abomination. Now where exactly in the New Testament, Chuck, does Christ burn flags and throw Bibles at people? Since we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, Chuck’s sins are the most dangerous and must be vigilantly fought since his beliefs lead to the real life death and crucifixion of Matthew Shepherd.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:40 AM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:03 AM
80s,

Do you want to associate with these people?

i got to believe you did not get the complete story?





and here is chuck's version?






Quote:
One pervert asked me for a hug, to which I complied. He must have be impressed (or maybe he just liked me), because he asked for a hug a couple more times throughout the preach.





Quote:
SODOMITES BURN IN EFFIGY

At 1pm, about 30 police officers on bicycles came to our area of the sidewalk and set up a perimeter with their bikes. Chuck had a "burn permit" for 1:30 as the parade was scheduled to pass.

The duralogs were lit over the garbage can. A few rainbow flags were torched as decadent paraders passed by. Then two sodomites swinging from a rope were burned in effigy. It was a glorious representation of the fires of hell.




Quote:
WE MARCHED IN THE PARADE

As a candidate running for office, Tony was granted a spot in the parade. We met Tony at the staging area and unfurled our banners at 11:30am. We went about a block and a half when we were attacked by sodomite anarchists. Three of them were taken into custody and we continued our march. We went another block and a half and were stopped by the police and parade marshal. We were corralled to the side as Tony and others explained our legitimate purpose.

About a half hour later the police escorted us to the sidewalk and marched us along the parade route. It was complete mayhem, so the police took us off the route to a different section of the parade. We set up our preaching area with many police officers directly in front of us acting as a wall between us and the weirdoes. It was quite exhilarating.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:41 AM   #24
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
that's your version


i found this one
Nothing like facts to get in the way, eh?

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:46 AM   #25
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Charles Spingola, aka, Preacher Chuck
"
Spingola spends his time attempting to intimidate gay, lesbian and bisexual men and women. Spingola threw Bibles at marchers at the recent Gay Pride March, burned the rainbow flag in front of the King Avenue Methodist Church that was holding an ecumenical service as part of the Stonewall Gay Pride holiday and demanded that “Faggots repent!” He spews his hate in name of Jesus, and quotes the Bible to cover his obvious eclectic sexual yearnings. You’ll find Spingola conveniently citing Leviticus 20:13 calling men laying with men an “abomination,” but you’ll never find him harassing pork eaters who are also referred to in Leviticus as an abomination. Now where exactly in the New Testament, Chuck, does Christ burn flags and throw Bibles at people? Since we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, Chuck’s sins are the most dangerous and must be vigilantly fought since his beliefs lead to the real life death and crucifixion of Matthew Shepherd."

This wasn't the incident he was arrested for in Columbus, that was shown in the PBS documentary "Flag Wars". I don't recall him throwing any Bibles in that one.

I don't agree with his hated of homosexuals or the fact that he calls them names, but the issue here is "flag-burning", not name-calling. Why is burning the flag of the USA during a protest protected as free speech when burning of the gay pride flag is not protected as free speech? If you say "because it is offensive" burning of the US flag is offensive to many, especially to those who have had a loved one die in battle and were given the US flag at the funeral.

By the way, I wans't going to bring "Flag Wars" into this until melon's unprovoked little slight of conservatives.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:50 AM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Nothing like facts to get in the way, eh?

Melon

Those weren't the facts of the particular incident to which I am referring, which was shown in "Flag Wars".
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:51 AM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Chuck Spingola arrested for taking fag flag http://www.armyofgod.com/ChuckSpingola.html
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 11:56 AM   #28
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest



unprovoked little slight of conservatives.
Early Sunday morning we headed out to Chicago to hook up with several other friends, including Tony Cisneros-

Republican candidate for Congress.


We met Tony back in March while preaching at the Gay Marriage Demonstration in Chicago.

WE MARCHED IN THE PARADE

As a candidate running for office, Tony was granted a spot in the parade. We met Tony at the staging area and unfurled our banners at 11:30am. We went about a block and a half when we were attacked by sodomite anarchists. Three of them were taken into custody and we continued our march. We went another block and a half and were stopped by the police and parade marshal. We were corralled to the side as Tony and others explained our legitimate purpose.


Quote:
Then two sodomites swinging from a rope were burned in effigy. It was a glorious representation of the fires of hell.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 12:05 PM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Are you trying to make me feel sorry "Preacher Chuck"? The man's a raving bigot and "ethnic intimidation" is the least of the charges that he should get.

Why should he get arrested for burning a gay pride flag versus someone walking away free for burning an American flag? Precisely because the motivation is completely different. "Preacher Chuck" is a bigot no different from the KKK or the National Alliance. Those who burn American flags are doing it not as a hate crime, but as a form of political protest. Big, big, BIG difference!

BTW, I see that "Preacher Chuck" is part of the hate group, "Army of God." These are the same people who support killing abortion doctors, amongst other extreme right-wing beliefs, and he seems to take pride in being a "Christian terrorist." His words, not mine. They really are in the same league as the KKK or the National Alliance.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-04-2005, 12:49 PM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Early Sunday morning we headed out to Chicago to hook up with several other friends, including Tony Cisneros-

Republican candidate for Congress.


We met Tony back in March while preaching at the Gay Marriage Demonstration in Chicago.

WE MARCHED IN THE PARADE

As a candidate running for office, Tony was granted a spot in the parade. We met Tony at the staging area and unfurled our banners at 11:30am. We went about a block and a half when we were attacked by sodomite anarchists. Three of them were taken into custody and we continued our march. We went another block and a half and were stopped by the police and parade marshal. We were corralled to the side as Tony and others explained our legitimate purpose.
You talk about comparisons that are not well thought-out, but yours takes the cake.

I said something about melon's slight of conservatives, and you post examples of Spagnola's hatred?

HUH?
What is the connection, deep?

This thread was about flag-burning, and neither side had insulted a whole group of people - until melon. That's the "slight of conservatives" I was talking about.

He does that all the time. It doesn't make a difference whether it is actually part of the conversation or not.
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com