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Old 04-20-2004, 06:23 PM   #1
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Five Years From Columbine-At Last We Know Why They Did It?

I want the focus to be on the victims, not on those two..but I thought this article was interesting, in light of how it is so often portrayed-that they were these kids "driven" to do this because they were constantly picked on and/or bullied in school. So you wonder if this could have been prevented at all?

Maybe by the killers' parents if they had realized their sons' psychological problems and sought help..? It is important to figure out why and what can be done differently, obviously

http://slate.msn.com/id/2099203/?GT1=3256

Thinking of the victims today, and all the victims of school violence
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Old 04-20-2004, 09:57 PM   #2
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Old 04-20-2004, 11:34 PM   #3
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I live only a few minutes away from Columbine. My sister and I were both supposed to attend and would have been there that day. Circumstances intervened.

I'm rather glad this myth of them being poor, persecuted young men has been exploded. I know the horrors people endure in high school and how it isn't addressed. This was something else altogether, and too many dropped the ball.

Living in the area, alot of stories about these two came out after the fact. The Harrises *knew* their son had problems. They had called the police on him at least once that I know of, for trying to injure his mother. They *knew* and ultimately, it came down to them and they failed.

The teachers knew the kind of violent stuff he was turning in and brought it to the attention of the principal, who blew it off. No one addressed it.

There's not a day that goes by in Colorado that something Columbine related isn't in the newspapers. But has anything changed? Do parents pay more attention to their kids? Do the schools know what their students are doing? No. No one learned anything. It's such a tragedy.
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Old 04-20-2004, 11:46 PM   #4
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41
There's not a day that goes by in Colorado that something Columbine related isn't in the newspapers. But has anything changed? Do parents pay more attention to their kids? Do the schools know what their students are doing? No. No one learned anything. It's such a tragedy.
Sadly, I think you're completely right.

I went to a large private high school and one year we had a bomb threat and were all (like 1500 of us) herded into a church next door while the sniffing dogs and bomb squad spent the entire afternoon searching. Then last year someone found a threat type note in a bathroom and for months ALL of the students had to enter school through a single door with extra police (besides our usual staff of security guards). The stupid thing was that everyone knew which kid left that note but the parents or teachers were either never informed or never took it seriously. My brother was talking about it once and said stuff like "oh, everyone knows it was so-and-so and he's always been really weird and messed up...". I guess not even private schools that consider themselves the best quality education and community aren't doing any better a job....
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Old 04-21-2004, 10:02 AM   #6
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But has anything changed? Do parents pay more attention to their kids? Do the schools know what their students are doing? No. No one learned anything. It's such a tragedy.
Yes, it is. I don't know if anything could've prevented it (can a psychopath be cured?), but if those in authority had done their jobs, it might've been lessened.

In both of their cases, psychotherapy would've been a good call. Yes, it's expensive and it's not guaranteed, but it does help. If your child is sick, you take him to the doctor. Ignoring it and hoping it will go away is absolutely the worst thing a parent can do.
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Old 04-21-2004, 10:51 AM   #7
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Yeah I read that article and I couldn't believe that they wouldn't have stopped their sons and gotten help for them. It's amazing how some parents these days either are too busy to pay attention to what their kids are doing or just ignore them thinking that whatever problem they're having will just go away. Whatever those boys had in their minds just kept building up. I don't know about a psychopath because they do harm on purpose knowing what they're doing is wrong but they could have least tried it out.
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Old 04-21-2004, 11:49 AM   #8
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It's a shame the school didn't do more to stop the bullying. Too many people accept it as part of school life or something that 'happens.' But it should not be that way. No one should have to go to school and be intimidated and harrassed. If it hasn't happened to you maybe you can't understand just how that feels and you just can't 'get over it' especially not when it continues to happen. If anyone needed 'psychological help' it was the bullies, because anyone who has to find joy and entertainment hurting others and putting them down to feel cool is a sick individual indeed. It is a tragedy it came to this. One thing I could never understand about the Eric and Dylan is, WHY did they go to the library and take out nice girls like Rachael? She never did them any harm. If they were that upset by the bullies you'd think they'd hunt them down and let them know who killed them and why. It's all part of the senseless waste of the whole story.

A problem that has come about since then is, I think, the schools are taking the wrong approach in their paranoia of this happening again. The rules have become stupid and extreme and punishments ridiculous. They're barking up the wrong tree, because it's not the badass boy who's always getting into trouble who does this, it's the quieter, nerdy, even timid types, the misfits who snap and shoot up the school. The only real way to stop it is to stop bullying. Both the bullies and the bullied should be sent to the guidence counselor, not the principal, when incidents happen.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:20 PM   #9
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It's a shame the school didn't do more to stop the bullying. Too many people accept it as part of school life or something that 'happens.' But it should not be that way. No one should have to go to school and be intimidated and harrassed. If it hasn't happened to you maybe you can't understand just how that feels and you just can't 'get over it' especially not when it continues to happen. If anyone needed 'psychological help' it was the bullies, because anyone who has to find joy and entertainment hurting others and putting them down to feel cool is a sick individual indeed. It is a tragedy it came to this. One thing I could never understand about the Eric and Dylan is, WHY did they go to the library and take out nice girls like Rachael? She never did them any harm. If they were that upset by the bullies you'd think they'd hunt them down and let them know who killed them and why. It's all part of the senseless waste of the whole story.
It is a senseless waste, but no one can explain why these kids did what they did. Maybe it was bullies, maybe it was girls who didn't pay attention to them, maybe it was their parents...more than likely it was a combination of all this and more.

Can these things be prevented? We may never know.

I do know this, that many times, more than ever admitted the parents aren't totally surprised. They saw something and never did anything be it fear, not knowing what to do, or not caring. My cousin was murdered by a jealous ex-boyfriend couple of years ago. His mother was actually quoted as saying she wasn't suprised this happen. He was obsessive and I didn't know what to do about it.


Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten

A problem that has come about since then is, I think, the schools are taking the wrong approach in their paranoia of this happening again. The rules have become stupid and extreme and punishments ridiculous. They're barking up the wrong tree, because it's not the badass boy who's always getting into trouble who does this, it's the quieter, nerdy, even timid types, the misfits who snap and shoot up the school. The only real way to stop it is to stop bullying. Both the bullies and the bullied should be sent to the guidence counselor, not the principal, when incidents happen.
I don't want to get into a debate here, but I also think this is part of the problem as well. I don't think any high school "type" should be narrowed down and focused on. Any individual can snap and lash out in violence like this. This type of thinking can lead to some dangerous presumptions and actions. Good example would be the West Memphis Three.

Anyone can snap not just the bullies, the bullied, or even the boys. Take a look at the girls hazing incedent that happened about a year ago. When I was in high school a very popular student council member with high grades and was very active brought enough plastic explosives to level my school twice. He was caught because a friend turned him in. So you never know, but hopefully a parent, a close friend, someone will see the signs and have the guts to do something before something like this happens.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:39 PM   #10
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That's what I'm saying, they seem to be targeting the 'type' that is the troublesome badass, when it's not usually that kind of person who does a school shooting. The answer is not more rules and longer detention, it's getting to the bottom of who bullies and why, who gets bullied and why, and stopping it. It bothers me people always think the picked on are the ones who need 'help' well maybe some do but the real problem is the bullies. I believe a person who becomes a bully is an asshole with a bad attitude and has some kind of problem too or he wouldn't act like that so he needs 'help.' If bullying isn't the only thing that sets it off then it's a bigger problem.

BTW I was a victim of school bullying, so maybe I see and feel this a little differently than most of you.

Another problem is nobody ever thinks anything is going to happen. I heard one story where the boys were in the garage making bombs and a couple kids from school came by and asked what they were doing and they replied that they were making bombs to blow you guys up. The kids told their parents and they called the cops but nothing was done. No one took it seriously. That's what I mean by barking up the wrong tree, some things are read too much into and some are neglected. I guess you can never tell until it's too late.

Some school security measures are really a joke. Like at my daughter's school, they have this old lady sitting at a desk in front of the door before you get to the office. They make you sign your name and take a visitor's pass. So once you've done that you are free to do what you want? I used to joke her about it, saying I had anthrax in my purse, or if someone pulled a gun what would she do. It really wouldn't stop anyone, it's a farce.

I am sorry about your cousin I've heard a lot of stories about that, ex boyfriend kills girl and her family or girl and her new boyfriend. But this is not always school related and happens with all ages, even middle aged married people. Just in my general area, a lost her husband when his lover's husband found him in bed with his wife and shot them both dead. They were 40 somethings. The other wife had no idea he was sleeping around on her. There was also a recent story of a gay love triangle where a guy stabbed to death his boyfriend and the guy he was cheating on him with, then hung himself in a greenhouse and the workers came in and found him. They were in their 30's. That was only about 2 miles from where I live. So that spurned lover aspect is everywhere and not just a school thing.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:46 PM   #11
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I was a victim of bullying as well and I did need help to get me out of the rut they threw me into I started suffering from depression when I was 9 yrs old and it lasted all the way through college...now I get it once in awhile but I did get help and I think that was the only thing that saved me from trying to commit suicide a few times.

The teachers KNEW that I was getting bullied and they did NOTHING to stop it.
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:52 PM   #12
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I'm sorry Mullen girl To me it was another attack on my already damaged self esteem for someone to think I needed 'help' What I needed was for someone to stop the bullies! My 8th grade guidence counselor was good. She talked to me and the bad kids. She brought me in to talk to other kids who were being harrassed that I didn't even know. She was always there for me, I could walk into her office ANYTIME I needed her, leaving class, coming down the hall, whenever, she'd take me in and help me and write me a pass to my next class. She really helped me and I don't know what would have happened to me if she hadn't been there. Every school should have one like her.

It is a big problem that teachers do usually see what is going on and ignore it or are afraid to act or think it's normal. That is wrong. If I were a teacher no one would be bullied in my class!
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:55 PM   #13
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Yeah definitely

It's important to catch it early before it messes up anybody
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Old 04-21-2004, 12:56 PM   #14
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Yeah as a messed up person I say amen to that!
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Old 04-21-2004, 01:00 PM   #15
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I am sorry about your cousin I've heard a lot of stories about that, ex boyfriend kills girl and her family or girl and her new boyfriend. But this is not always school related and happens with all ages, even middle aged married people. .
Right but my point was this kid's mother saw signs and did nothing. The problems happen before the kids get to school, the problems do not lie 100% in the schools.
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