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Old 02-24-2006, 03:28 PM   #16
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drug testing is necessary in some cases.
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Old 02-24-2006, 03:33 PM   #17
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Yep for sure, especially when someone's job involves the safety and lives of others. At what point do you determine that drug testing infringes on privacy?
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Old 02-24-2006, 03:44 PM   #18
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
My head is spinning. Let's just stick to keeping the drug users out.
Alright then, let's get rid of all the coffee drinkers too because caffeine is a drug. Especially if they take their coffee with sugar because sugar is a very addictive drug as well.
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Old 02-24-2006, 03:50 PM   #19
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Too bad I can't fire myself
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Old 02-24-2006, 03:57 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Calluna

Alright then, let's get rid of all the coffee drinkers too because caffeine is a drug. Especially if they take their coffee with sugar because sugar is a very addictive drug as well.


moving this along, so let's say that i'm engaging in some illegal behavior in my own home that doesn't affect my behavior at work. is it in my employer's interest -- is it even time well spent -- for him to investigate and test me for things that i might be doing that might be illegal, regardless of their impact on my performance?

if i were busted by the police for such behavior, the employer can certainly fire me, but why would the employer view it in his best interests to try to seek out illegal things i may or may not be doing?

like, let's say i liked to eat hallucinogenic mushrooms on friday nights and fall asleep in front of the TV. this is illegal. however, it does nothing to my job performance, since i've got saturday and sunday to recover. however, my employer drug tests me, and i test postitive for whatever substance is in those things, and i get fired.

was that really worth the effort?
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Old 02-24-2006, 04:10 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Irvine511

like, let's say i liked to eat hallucinogenic mushrooms on friday nights and fall asleep in front of the TV. this is illegal. however, it does nothing to my job performance, since i've got saturday and sunday to recover. however, my employer drug tests me, and i test postitive for whatever substance is in those things, and i get fired.

was that really worth the effort?
If it doesn't affect your performance, no, not worth the effort.

But if you called in sick every other Monday, or showed up and caused a work accident, your company would be looking for a cheap, easy way to get rid of you and many more like you, especially if you are unionized.
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Old 02-24-2006, 04:39 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Calluna

Alright then, let's get rid of all the coffee drinkers too because caffeine is a drug. Especially if they take their coffee with sugar because sugar is a very addictive drug as well.
Do I take cream with my crystal meth?
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Old 02-24-2006, 04:42 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Irvine511
moving this along, so let's say that i'm engaging in some illegal behavior in my own home that doesn't affect my behavior at work. is it in my employer's interest -- is it even time well spent -- for him to investigate and test me for things that i might be doing that might be illegal, regardless of their impact on my performance?

if i were busted by the police for such behavior, the employer can certainly fire me, but why would the employer view it in his best interests to try to seek out illegal things i may or may not be doing?

like, let's say i liked to eat hallucinogenic mushrooms on friday nights and fall asleep in front of the TV. this is illegal. however, it does nothing to my job performance, since i've got saturday and sunday to recover. however, my employer drug tests me, and i test postitive for whatever substance is in those things, and i get fired.

was that really worth the effort?
Perhaps we investigate these other areas if there is a strong correlation between the behavior and the work-related problems.

I think such correlation has been measured with drug use - and it applies to blue collar and white collar positions.
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Old 02-24-2006, 04:52 PM   #24
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Perhaps we investigate these other areas if there is a strong correlation between the behavior and the work-related problems.

I think such correlation has been measured with drug use - and it applies to blue collar and white collar positions.
There is likely a strong correlation between eating unhealthy food and work-related problems/performance.

What would be the appropriate way to investigate this in order to a) not hire you or b) fire you?
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Old 02-24-2006, 04:55 PM   #25
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Do I take cream with my crystal meth?
You may as well. And while we're at it, cream is right out. Too fattening. As we know, the costs of obesity related diseases are passed on to the corporation through insurance plans.

I'm afraid it's got to be powdered cream substitute for you, NB.
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Old 02-24-2006, 04:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Perhaps we investigate these other areas if there is a strong correlation between the behavior and the work-related problems.

I think such correlation has been measured with drug use - and it applies to blue collar and white collar positions.


but if there are no work-related problems, and drug testing is a policy of the company regardless of performance, doesn't that absolutely constitute an invasion of privacy?

there's no question that drug use -- especially with things like crystal meth -- are really, really bad and will destroy your life, let alone your performance on the job.

however, if there is no reason to be suspicious, if someone can snort a little cocaine on a saturday evening and not have it affect their job performance, what possible business is that of the employer? unless the employer wants to investigate all aspects of the employee's life to make sure that no laws are being broken on their personal time, why single out drug use?

to complicate this a bit, i can think of some professions where drug use is encouraged, starting with steroids, but also extending to young investment bankers who work 90 hours a week ... and this is just *illegal* drugs ... what about abuse of perscription drugs? what about employees who are encouraged to get, say, perscriptions for ritalin or adderall beause it increases their productivity?
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Old 02-24-2006, 04:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

moving this along, so let's say that i'm engaging in some illegal behavior in my own home that doesn't affect my behavior at work. is it in my employer's interest -- is it even time well spent -- for him to investigate and test me for things that i might be doing that might be illegal, regardless of their impact on my performance?
NO.

Quote:
if i were busted by the police for such behavior, the employer can certainly fire me, but why would the employer view it in his best interests to try to seek out illegal things i may or may not be doing?
Very good question, Irvine. I think what people do in the privacy of their own homes is nobody's business but their own.

And in Seattle, thanks to Initiative 22, private marijuana use is now considered a low priority crime for Seattle Police so I doubt anyone here would be getting arrested for it unless they were way out of line or just plain stupid.
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Old 02-24-2006, 05:04 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Calluna

I'm afraid it's got to be powdered cream substitute for you, NB.
That shit causes cancer. Insurance companies increase premiums when they pay for expensive cancer treatments.
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Old 02-24-2006, 05:07 PM   #29
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but if there are no work-related problems, and drug testing is a policy of the company regardless of performance, doesn't that absolutely constitute an invasion of privacy?
No. This is a well-settled issue in the courts. Employers can require testing for any new employee or as part of an on-going program.

I think you touch on an interesting issue of "what is the right to privacy?"

An employee has very limited privacy when at work (essentially, the bathroom), but not much more.
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Old 02-24-2006, 05:11 PM   #30
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to complicate this a bit, i can think of some professions where drug use is encouraged, starting with steroids, but also extending to young investment bankers who work 90 hours a week ... and this is just *illegal* drugs ... what about abuse of perscription drugs? what about employees who are encouraged to get, say, perscriptions for ritalin or adderall beause it increases their productivity?
LOL, I was going to mention some sectors could be wiped out due to this kind of policy, namely Wall Street.
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