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Old 09-13-2004, 07:54 AM   #1
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Fighting terrorism: a double standard?

Recently, Russian President Vladimir Putin has complained that the US, and countries who support the US have encouraged him to 'negotiate' with the terrorists instead of using force. He says, and I agree, that this is a double standard since the US believes in going after the terrorists. Putin said 'why don't you 'negotiate' with Osama bin Laden?' You cannot negotiate with people willing or even hoping to die. With this new breed of war there has to be a new way of fighting it. Putin has complained that the US and the UK are harboring Chechen terrorists with ties to the Moscow theater incident, giving them political asylum on the grounds they'd be tortured if returned to Russia. He asks, and so do I, wouldn't we want Russia to extridite a 9-11 terrorist? Russia sees their problems with terrorism as much the same as the US and that we need to be united in this. Here are several articles on the subject:

http://www.iht.com/articles/538466.html

http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,...397647,00.html

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...s_040912081412

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Edmont...13/627333.html

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet...=1031777896955
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Old 09-13-2004, 08:00 AM   #2
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I think we are over-simplifying the issue.

Perhaps it depends on the group you characterize as "terrorists". If it is a network of like-minded individuals, it is hard to negotiate. If it is a body of people governed by "elected" representatives, negotiations may be more successful.
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Old 09-13-2004, 08:01 AM   #3
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But Russia has evidence the Chechens are being helped by Al Queida, and their methods are much the same.
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Old 09-13-2004, 08:08 AM   #4
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Well even Terrorism has allways bin a double standard,
Our beloved former president Clinton used Terror-tactics against Iraq several times.
Everyone remembers the Terrorism on the Achille Lauro, a horrible thing where the terrorists murdered a crippled American, noone remembers that the terrorists called it a revenge for a US terror strike (Tunis bombing 75 people killed - supported by the US secretary of state) or the Beirut car bombing (meintioned on another thread allready)
In the movie "Rambo" you can see the glorification of anti-Russian terrorists as freedomfighters - the bush administration supported anti-Iranian terrorists...
...and in the end anyone is surprised that there are double standards in fighting terrorism?

Btw. Putin has also at least "interesting" ideas how to fight terrorism. For example:
-Regional governors will be nominated in the future by the head of state rather than elected

As mentioned on another thread, the U.S. Army manuals, define Terrorism by:
"the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious or ideological in nature...through intimidation, coercion or instilling fear."

So... Invading a country for a regime change is definetly violence to attain goals that are political or ideological!

*sarcasm on*
But of course it's a good thing if we use violence to gain our goals.
*sarcasm off*
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Old 09-13-2004, 08:37 AM   #5
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Clearly a double standard adopted by US

any terrorism in New York city - international terrorism

any terrorism in Baghdad city - international terrorism

Any terrorism in other parts of world - local problem, talk , negotiate.. Come to a solution
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Old 09-13-2004, 09:45 AM   #6
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It's a bit like minor surgery -- it's only minor when it happens to someone else.
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Old 09-13-2004, 11:38 AM   #7
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What is terrorism? Everyone will have their own definitions of it.

To inflict terror (the wantom destruction of Life along with the emotional scars that it leaves behind) is rampant all over the world.

What is the saddest and most aggravating thing for me is that sometimes thw WORST TERRORISM doesn't get sufficiently reported by the media because it doesn't fit into their overall propaganda purposes.

What am I talking about - how about the massive destructive size and scope of the AIDS pandemic? Is that not wantom(unnecessary) destruction of lives and communities?

We just passed the 3rd anniversary of 9/11 the other day. In that unfortunate incident, almost 3,000 people lost their lives in one day. In Africa, the world loses TWO 9/11's FULL OF INNOCENT PEOPLE EVERYDAY and hardly anyone in the media and our societies notice.

Every year, Africa loses 2,372,500 people unnecessarily to AIDS. Why don't we all do more to alleviate these people's suffering?

Is it because they are not a "hot political item" that we can debate about and end up re-inforcing our political points of view?

Their lives are as precious as anyone's in NYC, Beslan (a lot of African children are left orphaned by AIDS with no one to care for them), Jakarta, etc yet the terrorism that they must suffer under - the terrorism of extreme poverty and disease - is largely forgotten in the developed world.

I think this thread is thought-provoking and a good idea. I just felt it in my heart to re-emphasize that there are many people around the world who suffer unjustly.

And the majority of them suffer in places like Africa and the Indian subcontinent, not always from the barrel of a gun or bombs, but from the terrorism of not having clean water to drink, food to eat, medicine to save their lives.

Those are the innocent souls that I can't get out of my consciousness.
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Old 09-13-2004, 11:59 AM   #8
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Terrorism is generally accepted to be guerilla activities using weapons with the intent to inflict bodily harm to random people and places in order to try to scare someone into giving you what you want. Thus the name "TERRORism"

I'm afraid Jamila's defintion is one of the biggest stretches I've ever seen While we do all care about the AIDS victims in Africa there is no way to compare not saving every single one of them or giving every cent of everyone's money to them "terrorism." If that's the case, then are we terrorists for leaving neighbors, friends and relatives without health care? Is it 'terrorism' not to take home every homeless person you see? I'm sitting her flat broke, and my relatives don't give a rat's ass. Are they terrorists?

While the AIDs problem in Africa is dear to your heart, there are also people all over the world sick, dying, living in substandard conditions, even right here in America. There are also Americans who cannot afford drugs for AIDS or other illnesses. There is no way even the richest or the best intended person could ever solve all the ills and problems of the world. Doing nothing to help someone could be described as apathy, neglect, indifference, uncaring. But NOT terrorism!

I've been trying to stay outa here but I couldn't let that go

What is happening in Russia IS terrorism, and they have every right to deal with it in ways needed to protect themselves and prevent future attacks.
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Old 09-13-2004, 12:03 PM   #9
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it's a difficult situation really

Putin should talk with the chechen representatives
at the same time you can't expect him to just wait while on regular basis chechen terrorists slaughter russian kids/parents/grandparents etc

so it's a tricky situation
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Old 09-13-2004, 12:10 PM   #10
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and worst of all, you can't let them think their terror tactics worked in bringing you to the table!
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Old 09-13-2004, 01:30 PM   #11
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it would be at least at worse when the terrorism would be used to fit your personal agenda
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Old 09-13-2004, 02:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
Doing nothing to help someone could be described as apathy, neglect, indifference, uncaring. But NOT terrorism!
I don't like the apathy, neglect, indifference and uncaring attitudes that people have towards the emergency in Africa being called terrorism either U2Kitten.

Sorry Jamila, but this definition does not describe the inactiveness of people:
Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons

I do understand Jamila's frustration at the sleeping people though. While there are problems that need to be solved everywhere - the loss of so many people every day - day in and out - just can't be compared to these problems.

We lost 3000 people on September 11th. More than twice that every day die from AIDS in Africa. Seriously - sit back and imagine that amount of people. It is really a huge emergency that cannot compare to the current problems in our society. I understand that you (U2Kitten) are feeling the effects of some bad economic troubles - but even if you ended up homeless for awhile there will be people to take care of you. Our society would not let you starve or let your children live on the streets.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I've been trying to stay outa here but I couldn't let that go
It's nice to see you here U2Kitten.
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Old 09-13-2004, 03:46 PM   #13
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While I respect the fact that the "terrorism" I'm talking about does not fit nicely into the dictionary's definition of "terrorism", this same idea has been alluded by Bono from something Colin Powell, U.S. Secretary of State said in 2002 "The war against terrorism is tied up in the war against poverty".

The two are intrinsically linked.

It's sad that we can't make the big links in our ways of thinking, stretch our worldviews to consider the broader ramifications of a problem.

I'm simply stating that I have as much concern for those in our world who suffer silently and die in some forgotten corner of the world from totally preventable causes as much as I would for someone's unnecessary sudden loss of life - is that too much for others to accept and understand?

You know, we don't always have to agree in these threads, but we could at least try to LISTEN to each other and FEEL WITH OUR HEARTS what each other is trying to say instead of jumping on each other.

And as for being poor, right now I work an $8 p/hr job, 30 hrs p/wk, with no health benefits and no husband or family member to help me out.

One doesn't have to do a lot of math to see that I'm as poor if not poorer than anyone else here. But I maintain a friendly and positive attitude in spite of my economics. It CAN BE DONE.

Anyway, sorry, wild honey, I was only pointing out a tragic preventable situation for millions of people in the world. I hoped to would add not detract from your original idea.

I wish everyone well.
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Old 09-13-2004, 03:50 PM   #14
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I meant Wild Angel.

I was a bit disappointed having to write that post.

That's one reason why I try to stay out of FYM - posting here too often actually brings me down and I PREFER TO BE ELEVATED!
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
The two are intrinsically linked.
If it were that easy, we could buy out the "terrorists". Unfortunately, current terrorist organizations make no demands regarding economic status.
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