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Old 09-04-2005, 10:43 AM   #31
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The public does not want more taxes, but the general public should not be paying them anyway. In the 1970s, corporations paid 70% of all tax revenues collected, while individuals (and that would include both the richest and poorest) paid 30%. In the "good old days" of the 1950s, corporations paid 90% and individuals paid 10%.

Nowadays? That number is pretty much flipped: individuals pay roughly 90%, while corporations pay 10%. The wealthiest entities in this nation are not paying their fair share, even though they suck all of our money.

So as I see it, either corporations should be forced to pay more taxes (some of the wealthiest corporations in the country are at a point where they pay no taxes at all) or they should be forced to dramatically increase the amount they pay their workers, so that our 90% tax revenue burden can be more justified.

Right now, Bush is letting the wealthiest entities in the world have their cake and eat it too. And what do we get in return? Almost constant bankruptcy threats, layoffs, and pension dumping.

Oh what a great country we've turned into.

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Old 09-04-2005, 10:55 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
The public does not want more taxes, but the general public should not be paying them anyway. In the 1970s, corporations paid 70% of all tax revenues collected, while individuals (and that would include both the richest and poorest) paid 30%. In the "good old days" of the 1950s, corporations paid 90% and individuals paid 10%.

Nowadays? That number is pretty much flipped: individuals pay roughly 90%, while corporations pay 10%. The wealthiest entities in this nation are not paying their fair share, even though they suck all of our money.

So as I see it, either corporations should be forced to pay more taxes (some of the wealthiest corporations in the country are at a point where they pay no taxes at all) or they should be forced to dramatically increase the amount they pay their workers, so that our 90% tax revenue burden can be more justified.

Right now, Bush is letting the wealthiest entities in the world have their cake and eat it too. And what do we get in return? Almost constant bankruptcy threats, layoffs, and pension dumping.

Oh what a great country we've turned into.

Melon
Good post.

Those neo-liberal politics started with Reagan, were followed by Bush Sr., continued with Clinton and is pushed forward by Bush Jr.
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Old 09-04-2005, 12:26 PM   #33
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How come the State and Local governments seem to be getting a free pass with all of the criticism? Seems to me that those 2 entiites needed to represent THEIR citizens alot better.

Whoever said it's all a game is exactly right. Those 2 entities did a subpar job of dealing with the resource deficiency in terms of Category 4/5 preparation. First of all, they didn't fight hard enough for Federal resource allocation. Second of all, they didn't come up with appropriate contingency plans in lieu of the resource deficiency.

Monday morning quarterbacking sucks. So that's not my point here. I'm just trying to point out that those 2 entities seem to be getting off scott free relative to the Federal Govt. because the risk to those levies were no secret. Yet, the Mayor and Governor havn't got anywhere near the criticism the President has got.
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Old 09-04-2005, 12:26 PM   #34
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Originally posted by verte76


No, they sure haven't. But the City of New Orleans really needs to fix its levees. Hindsight is 20/20, they did not know that this was going to be a Cat 5 storm before it made landfall.

Actually, it was a Cat 5 a day before it made landfall.
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:53 PM   #35
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Actually, it was a Cat 5 a day before it made landfall.
That's right. I remember the announcement now. That whole day was basically a blur for me.
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:55 PM   #36
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. That whole day was basically a blur for me.
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Old 09-04-2005, 06:54 PM   #37
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Re: reply

Quote:
Originally posted by wizard2c
Lessons to be learned.....

Learn from the past, do not dwell on them.

you can only learn from the past in a whole way IF you know as many facts as possible about the past....

the president got up and said 'we DIDN'T know the Levees would break....'. :l

That IS an OUTRIGHT lie!

The USA Army corps of Engineers had been saying for # years that the some of the levees were sinking they needed shoring up.
Local FEMA manager ALSO was desoperately trying to get help for the levees!

THE MONEY alotted for fixing the levees, AND for running a [i]Catgory 4 hurracane test[/'i] by what FEMA, and locals officials were involved in - kept getting taken away eacy year post- 2001-- once FEMA was diminshed after being folding into under the tent of Homelad Security.
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:05 PM   #38
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


New Orleans was prepared for a Category 3 Hurricane. They got more than they planned for. Simple.

This monday morning quarterbacking is out of hand. No matter what we plan for, we will experience the unexpected.
The Army Corps of Engineersd and Local FEMA people were beggingfor money to shore up the levees for at least the PAST 3 - 4yrs! They started to get money then it was taken away, then turned down as the yrs dragged on.

AND ALSO they wanted to run a Catgory 4 hurricane test/drill computer modeling, etc. IT ALSO was turned down!


Neither of THESE are "Monday morning quaterbacking"....

They are facts:the money and the proposed actions that would have resulted from that money {that they DIDN'T get}-- that people were desperately trying to get to be ABLE to HELP THEMSELVES!
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


That's right. I remember the announcement now. That whole day was basically a blur for me.

no kidding!
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Layton
How come the State and Local governments seem to be getting a free pass with all of the criticism? Seems to me that those 2 entiites needed to represent THEIR citizens alot better.

Whoever said it's all a game is exactly right. Those 2 entities did a subpar job of dealing with the resource deficiency in terms of Category 4/5 preparation. First of all, they didn't fight hard enough for Federal resource allocation. Second of all, they didn't come up with appropriate contingency plans in lieu of the resource deficiency.

Monday morning quarterbacking sucks. So that's not my point here. I'm just trying to point out that those 2 entities seem to be getting off scott free relative to the Federal Govt. because the risk to those levies were no secret. Yet, the Mayor and Governor havn't got anywhere near the criticism the President has got.
Fox news and conservative groups are totally blaming the governor and the mayor while absolving Bush. As far as I'm concerned, they all screwed up. Plus FEMA has really looked inefficient as compared to past hurricane reliefs.
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Layton
Those 2 entities did a subpar job of dealing with the resource deficiency in terms of Category 4/5 preparation. First of all, they didn't fight hard enough for Federal resource allocation.

how do you know how hard or not they fought?
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k


Plus FEMA has really looked inefficient as compared to past hurricane reliefs.
FEMA was folded inito the tent of "homeland security". , then monies Local FEMA/state etc they asked for [see my above posts] were seemingly not at all given, or waaaay diminshed from previous hurricane releif, and [u]pre-postioning {where they get vehicals/supplies as close as possible- leaving some leeway for the storm to go another way] was NOT done for this storm as had been done in the 90's....?? i think Hur. Georges and Floyd if I remeber people who'd been through those taking about it on radio, it was done.
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:27 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
Fox news and conservative groups are totally blaming the governor and the mayor while absolving Bush.
I was waiting for the spin doctors to whip up their usual course of lies. I'd say that FOX News is 99% of why Bush always gets a free pass for his fuck ups.

Melon
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:26 PM   #44
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Re: Re: FEMA: "Americans don't live in tents".

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Originally posted by Lila64



As someone said Saturday on CNN (or some coverage I was watching) 'refugees' was not a term they liked hearing, they preferred to have them referred to as 'survivors'.



Americans don't live in tents.

Americans don't become refugees.

I know that it may make people feel better to call themselves 'displaced' or 'survivors', but the fact is that they are refugees from a natural disaster.

I know that the news and media are probably going to fall on the side of not offending the people who have endured this catastrophe, but I see no other problem, especially when speaking about this in a political context and in terms of relief, aid, investigation of possible administration failure, etc., with speaking plainly.

'Refugee' may have unpretty connotations but this is a very ugly disaster and those people who got out alive are living very unpretty lives right now.

I hope that we do not blunt down the reality of their situation and the reality of their needs by completely burying the term 'refugee'. I know America likes to pretty things up even as much as possible but ... this isn't the time.

And should I meet, face to face, anybody who has lived through that mess, I'll call that individual anything they want to be called, even if they want to be called Chucky the Flying Pig. Though I hope not.

But when speaking of the mass of humanity that is still and will continue to be in need of assistance for weeks and months to come, I think 'refugees' is the truest, most low spin term.

And by using the word, unpretty or not, we are NOT playing along with certain politicians desire to soften the implications of the situation.
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:28 PM   #45
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