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Old 06-23-2005, 09:27 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23


Man I wish I had your beliefs, Im christian, now Im going to go sin all I want, but who cares Im christian Im already saved. All I know is that these unclean spirits try to possess the body of christians and non christians, just as they did in the times of Jesus, when Jesus cast them out, they wanted a body. And Ive seen it happen to Christians, so Im not just making this happen, Ive seen it.
Is that what I said? No! And if you had taken the time to actually read what I wrote and try to understand it, you'd know that. If you knew me at all from these forums, you'd know I don't believe that at all. I do not advocate "sinning all I want"! If someone has that attitude, it makes me doubt whether that person is a Christian or not. I want to do what's right in God's sight. I don't always do it, but that's what I want.

The Bible does say that a Christian is washed clean. That's why Christ was crucified, because we can't wash our own sins away. If you are a Christian, your spirit (not your flesh) is perfect - the Bible says that you are a new creation; the sin nature has been crucified and in tis place is a new nature created by Christ. The Holy Spirit moves in when a person becomes a Christian. Paul said that "I am crucified with Christ. Therefore, it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me". Now, tell me how a demon can enter the soul of someone who has the Holy Spirit in him? It won't work. Darkness and light cannot abide together. When accused of being demon possessed, Christ himself said that "a house divided against itself cannot stand". In other words, "I have God in me; I cannot have a demon, also"
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:28 PM   #92
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you owe it to her and to God that she receive proper care.
It would be unfortunate if this young lady were to harm herself due to an unreasonable and inconsistent application of Biblical teachings.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:30 PM   #93
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Is that what I said? No! And if you had taken the time to actually read what I wrote and try to understand it, you'd know that. If you knew me at all from these forums, you'd know I don't believe that at all. I do not advocate "sinning all I want"! If someone has that attitude, it makes me doubt whether that person is a Christian or not. I want to do what's right in God's sight. I don't always do it, but that's what I want.

The Bible does say that a Christian is washed clean. That's why Christ was crucified, because we can't wash our own sins away. If you are a Christian, your spirit (not your flesh) is perfect - the Bible says that you are a new creation; the sin nature has been crucified and in tis place is a new nature created by Christ. The Holy Spirit moves in when a person becomes a Christian. Paul said that "I am crucified with Christ. Therefore, it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me". Now, tell me how a demon can enter the soul of someone who has the Holy Spirit in him? It won't work. Darkness and light cannot abide together. When accused of being demon possessed, Christ himself said that "a house divided against itself cannot stand". In other words, "I have God in me; I cannot have a demon, also"
Yeah, you're right. Either she wasn't a christian or she was being oppressed from the outside. I just have a hard time believing a demon could oppress her like that. She really seemed possessed to me. It was controlling her body and her mind to a point, and making her say things she didn't want to say. I just don't see how that can happen to a christian.

I guess all that matters now is that she's been washed clean of any demon and is clean in God's eyes
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:32 PM   #94
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heres something I find interesting

"The Biblical concept is that man is comprised of two components. The material body and the immaterial spirit. Those who promote Christian demonization say that the unclean dwells in our body and not the spirit. What they overlook is that the old nature still dwells in us and that it expresses itself by the body. Yielding to the desires of the flesh can bring one into bondage but this certainly cannot be put in the same category as demonization. While it makes one do the will of Satan instead of God it should not be confused with occupation. In Gal. 5:19-22, much of what is blamed on demons is really man's fallen nature, expressing itself through his flesh. Demons can entice and exaggerate our fleshly weaknesses but the blame lies in ourselves .

While demonic power can affect the outside of our body and our emotions and minds they can never come into the innermost man, one needs to distinguish between oppression and possession .Satan has a limit in dealing with a believer otherwise we are no better off then one who is a non believer. If every time they sin it is blamed on demonic activity than what would be the difference when we sin. Then Christ cannot protect His people."


On the topic of just sinning because we are forgiven, thats not what Christians are taught to do
God wants to see the fruits of our labors within ourselves. Weeding out the sinful nature and replacing it with a more Godly nature through discipline and faith.
I know that Im a far better person (though not a good person in the least) than I was without my faith in God
Because I love God I want to do what he wants, and that is a mark of a christian. desire to do better, not just use God as an excuse to do whatever the hell I want
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:34 PM   #95
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I will say goodnight to you, shart, and I will pray for both of you. But before I log off, I would like to stress one more time - please consider taking her to see a Christian counselor who has dealt with and specializes in suicidal tendancies. Please.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:34 PM   #96
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I'm going to share a story that my dad is particular fond of telling. I think it applies here.

During a particular rainy season in Mississippi, the river spilled it's banks and flooded a small rural town. A young man saw the water rising steadily, but did not know how to swim. He climbed up onto the roof of his house and began to pray. "God, I have followed your path as long as I can remember. I have faith that you will save me."

Soon his neighbors from across the street paddled over in a canoe, and shouted for him to come down and climb in.

"No thanks!" said the young man. "God will save me!" Shrugging, the neighbors paddled down the street and out of sight.

Still the floodwaters rose, until they were at the bottom of the roof. "God will save me," said the young man, "I have faith."

As the water began to lap at his feet, another neighbor approached in a canoe and implored the young man to climb in so they could row to safety.

"Thank you, but I have faith that God will save me! Go, get to safety!" Shrugging, the neighbor moved on.

The waters continued to rise, until the young man could no longer stay afloat. He drowned. Upon appearing in Heaven, the young man, somewhat confused, asked God "God, why did you not save me? My faith has always been strong!"

To which God replied "Did you not see the two canoes I sent you?"


-----

Don't ignore help simply because it doesn't announce itself as being from God.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:35 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
I will say goodnight to you, shart, and I will pray for both of you. Bute before I log off, I would like to stress one more time - please consider taking her to see a Christian counselor who has dealt with and specializes in suicidal tendancies. Please.
I will. I'll talk to her about this tonight. Thanks alot for your prayers. It's nice to know there's other christians out there who are supporting us
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:36 PM   #98
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I believe she was unsaved. A couple years ago we had prayed "the prayer" together, but I think since then she had really fallen away. It's hard for me to say for sure whether I believe a christian can be possessed or not, but I can tell you I'm pretty sure that she had fallen away from God.
See this is what I don't understand. Going back to 80's definition of a Christian and something that you yourself have talked about in other posts, how once you accept Jesus then grace will save you, but now you are saying that the prodical son isn't protected by grace. Given your history of posts, and I hate to bring it up but I think it's important in this discussion, I'm surprised you have been in such a long relationship with someone that isn't Christian. I mean you have a very strict definition of what a Christian is more than most ministers, priests, or others that I know. I mean you won't turn to "secular" psycology for help, but you'll turn to a "secular" girlfriend for love? It just doesn't make sense.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:36 PM   #99
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The willfull self-destructiveness that the human mind is capable of is a serious problem; I have seen it first hand and if nothing is done then the final cry for help will be the end.

The manifestation of this damage can vary from person to person; some may take too cutting themselves in acts of self mutilation, others attempt suicide or go about cutting themselves off from others. Repression of the behaviour through sheer strength of will does not solve the problem and it can make it worse in the long run.

What is the one way conduit of the spirtual for a person; their soul; what is the soul ~ the psyche; and a scientific approach to this can save the person and stop the issues.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:36 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


Yeah, you're right. Either she wasn't a christian or she was being oppressed from the outside. I just have a hard time believing a demon could oppress her like that. She really seemed possessed to me. It was controlling her body and her mind to a point, and making her say things she didn't want to say. I just don't see how that can happen to a christian.

I guess all that matters now is that she's been washed clean of any demon and is clean in God's eyes

I can't even think of anything to say to this. She's been suicidal before, she's been abused, and you seriously think two kids can overcome all this just with a prayer or two?




Good luck, kids. You're going to need it.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:38 PM   #101
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
The willfull self-destructiveness that the human mind is capable of is a serious problem; I have seen it first hand and if nothing is done then the final cry for help will be the end.

The manifestation of this damage can vary from person to person; some may take too cutting themselves in acts of self mutilation, others attempt suicide or go about cutting themselves off from others. Repression of the behaviour through sheer strength of will does not solve the problem and it can make it worse in the long run.

What is the one way conduit of the spirtual for a person; their soul; what is the soul ~ the psyche; and a scientific approach to this can save the person and stop the issues.
I don't propose that she strengthens herself through sheer willpower, I propose that she strengthens herself through God's power, which is infinite.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:39 PM   #102
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See this is what I don't understand. Going back to 80's definition of a Christian and something that you yourself have talked about in other posts, how once you accept Jesus then grace will save you, but now you are saying that the prodical son isn't protected by grace. Given your history of posts, and I hate to bring it up but I think it's important in this discussion, I'm surprised you have been in such a long relationship with someone that isn't Christian. I mean you have a very strict definition of what a Christian is more than most ministers, priests, or others that I know. I mean you won't turn to "secular" psycology for help, but you'll turn to a "secular" girlfriend for love? It just doesn't make sense.
I was going to bring this up as well thanks for getting there before me

diemen (kind of ironic ) I liked your illustration. It went along the vein of what I was trying to say about God commanding us to love one another. In that we can help one another. God works through people. Its a common known fact among the christian community
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:42 PM   #103
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Is that what I said? No! And if you had taken the time to actually read what I wrote and try to understand it, you'd know that. If you knew me at all from these forums, you'd know I don't believe that at all. I do not advocate "sinning all I want"! If someone has that attitude, it makes me doubt whether that person is a Christian or not. I want to do what's right in God's sight. I don't always do it, but that's what I want.

The Bible does say that a Christian is washed clean. That's why Christ was crucified, because we can't wash our own sins away. If you are a Christian, your spirit (not your flesh) is perfect - the Bible says that you are a new creation; the sin nature has been crucified and in tis place is a new nature created by Christ. The Holy Spirit moves in when a person becomes a Christian. Paul said that "I am crucified with Christ. Therefore, it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me". Now, tell me how a demon can enter the soul of someone who has the Holy Spirit in him? It won't work. Darkness and light cannot abide together. When accused of being demon possessed, Christ himself said that "a house divided against itself cannot stand". In other words, "I have God in me; I cannot have a demon, also"
First of all I didnt mean to come off like that, judging your beliefs, sorry about that.

Im not going get in a bible bash with you, Ive already debated this many times on this forum, with scriptures, etc.. And it goes nowhere. So I respect your beliefs, and i hope you will respect mine!

It is true when we are baptised we recieve the Holy Ghost as a comforter, a guidance, just like on Pinocchio(im going to use Pinocchio, as an example)Pinocchio had a fairy as a guidance to choose right from wrong, and when Pinocchio chose wrong he was easily acceptable to the darkside, as the fairy left him. When we are in a state of sinning, the Holy Ghost can not abide with us, he is not with us, and we are open to devil, and his temptaions. I dont know as to how far people go, as they actually have to invite the devil( and sinning openily is practically inviting the devil). I wish you could have been with me walking the streets in Mexico City, and been with me in some of these homes, and you would know how real this really is. It happens just as much with Christians as it does with non Christians, if you dont believe me, that is fine.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:43 PM   #104
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God's power requires faith which must come from within; and it still does not adress the cause of the problems.

It is a moot point anyway; all I am saying is do not abandon an avenue which could really help.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:43 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


Yeah, you're right. Either she wasn't a christian or she was being oppressed from the outside. I just have a hard time believing a demon could oppress her like that. She really seemed possessed to me. It was controlling her body and her mind to a point, and making her say things she didn't want to say. I just don't see how that can happen to a christian.

I guess all that matters now is that she's been washed clean of any demon and is clean in God's eyes
Ok I wasn't going to say anymore but it just got more ridiculous in here. What are you talking about?!?

First of all you've never witnessed a possession so you have no clue as to how it looks or sounds. I've seen mental breakdowns, I know what they look and sound like.

You still stand by the fact that she was possessed, well almost everyone who actually believes in possession would call you a liar because a demon is much stronger than any human force and would have hung up on you right away! You don't come out of a "possession" in 5 minutes, or how ever long your phone call lasted.
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