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Old 06-24-2005, 09:00 AM   #151
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Getting back to the original topic, I'm still of the personal opinion that it was a temporary psychotic episode brought on by stress and manifested in cultural constructs that we label "possession." It's the same principle that makes people go into trances or "speak in tongues," etc.

I also know that some people can develop such low self esteem and self-hatred that it's very possible she's been thinking she's been under the influence of evil for a long time now, and, as such, convinced herself she was "possessed" in the heat of the moment and acted it out. Other people can manifest this in the other direction, and come to the conclusion that they're "God" and that everyone else is evil. Or, as I said before, believe that they're a reincarnation of an evil figure in history.

Long term stress and frustration with no end in sight can and will put a toll on one's mental health. Continue to pray and feel free not to believe any of the above that I've said here, but I think that if you leave this thread with one piece of advice, it will be to seek professional help.

Psychology or psychiatry is not a denial of God, by any means, and unless you're a Christian Scientist, I don't think any mainstream Christian sect would demand that you reject help from the secular world as a condition of faith.

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Old 06-24-2005, 09:06 AM   #152
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icelle,
No one "attacked her". We thought she was saying something and we spoke to her about it.

Please take a serious look at what she wrote. Can't you see how that could be misinterpeted? Don't you see how U2bonogirl's feelings could be hurt?

********

too often, the word "christian" is thrown around like confetti, and there are a few perfect examples of it in this thread. in fact, there are a couple of people i'd like to question, but i'm afraid that my intentions would be misconstrued"

followed by:

"you are one of the ones I wanted to question"

********

I'm sorry if her feelings are hurt, and that is not what I meant to happen. But I did in fact say that I wasn't sure of her intention but that the way she worded it made it seem that she was questioning U2bonogirl's Christianity.

If you speak to her again tell her that. But maybe she can do some apoligizing herself, to U2bonogirl.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:06 AM   #153
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God created our brains very intricately.
He understands how fecked in the brain we can get sometimes as a result of sin either directed towards us, or done by us
I agree that seeking help (even a christian counselor) is not denying God, but accepting that we cant do everything on our own
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:20 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2bonogirl
I dont understand how she feels that way if I offered to answer anything, AND I sent her a PM

Yeah, missing an opportunity to witness, but witness to what? Nothings been asked
You know, she wasnt the only one crying because she fely misunderstood
and I cant believe I just admitted that
Bonosgirl84 seems like a very sweet person (and I totally mean that, everytime I've read a journal entry or come across a post, I see someone that is very kind) I sent her a PM which she hasn't read, to try to apologize, explain or otherwise encourage her. If in my desire to protect Tara and bring things out into the open, I made things worse, I apologize deeply. I really think that you and Tara would get along very well if you were to only give her another chance and open dialogue. You are both hurting and it doesn't have to be that way.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:21 AM   #155
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I apologize to bonosgirl84 if my reaction was not in line with what she wrote. I am sorry if I hurt her feelings.

Many of us should take more care with what we write.

Specifically, if I had any question about her statement, I should have asked her what she meant. That's an example I should follow with everyopne, not just in this one case.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:24 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsforu2


Bonosgirl84 seems like a very sweet person (and I totally mean that, everytime I've read a journal entry or come across a post, I see someone that is very kind) I sent her a PM which she hasn't read, to try to apologize, explain or otherwise encourage her. If in my desire to protect Tara and bring things out into the open, I made things worse, I apologize deeply. I really think that you and Tara would get along very well if you were to only give her another chance and open dialogue. You are both hurting and it doesn't have to be that way.
Good grief, stars, there you go again. How many kudos for loving approaches am I going to have to give you today?

Stop it, I have to do some work sometime today! My boss is a mean old man - I'm self-employed.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:25 AM   #157
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that quality is part of why Im marrying starsforu2
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:26 AM   #158
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Shart,

I am saying everything below as a Christian who considers God to be first in life.

Please prayfully read Pax's posts. They contain a lot of wisdoml

Please re-read Martha's warning that if you don't get this girl professional help, she may soon be dead. She's right.

Please head to your local Christian bookstore and pick up a book called "False Assumptions: Relief from 12 'Chrisitan" Beliefs that Will Drive You Crazy" by Cloud and Townsend. It is by two Christian psychologists (LOL--as if the two are mutually exlcusive, which is what a lot of folks on this thread seem to think!) who discuss things like abuse, suicide, addiction and how important it is to realize that believing God has the answers does NOT mean refusing professional medical help. Why else do you think He gave us psychology and medicine??

Then, please, please, take her to see your pastor and a professional conselor who has expertise in suicide.

Finally, a friend of mine once dealt with bipolar and addiction. I am in the DC area and if you are, let me know and I can give you some names from my sister (who recommended them), who is a clinical psycholoist.

You will both be in my prayers.

Blessings,
Cheryl
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:27 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Psychology or psychiatry is not a denial of God, by any means, and unless you're a Christian Scientist, I don't think any mainstream Christian sect would demand that you reject help from the secular world as a condition of faith.
This has been said again and again, and I agree with all of you and won't repeat the advice.

Whatever you believe shart, it is arrogance to believe you and her can fix this problem alone. Isn't arrogance a sin? I don't care if you believe God will give you the strength, you both need to realize your limitations and abilities and seek help. Since your faith apparently forbids medical advice, I would think that any good Christian convinced of evil incarnate would seek the assistance of a pastor or priest.

There was a similar instance in my family of someone telling a relative they were possessed. They became convinced of it, too. It's too personal and private to go into, but the consequences were very serious. Seek help, in whatever way seems best to you, but get it now.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:53 AM   #160
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The term Ive heard most often is "sinful pride"
In which you rely too much on yourself and not on God and others who know more than you, and have a better view on whats going on. its hard to see inside ourselves sometimes, but others can see far better than we can
As far as I know Christianity does not forbid medical help. At least Ive never been told of it.

I remember a friend of mine had a crazy mother and she believed that her son was Jesus Christ. She tried to exorcise him for listening to U2 too
True story
There was some serious demonic activity going on in that house that I know of first hand so this stuff is real.
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:03 AM   #161
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Shart,

I agree with Sherry Darling's post above. I'm a Christian too. I also try to put God first in my life as well. The important thing to remember is that by seeking help through counseling, you're not denying God's power, you're actually using it. Seeking God's power is a great thing to do, but seeking his will is where we should all start in everything we do. My wife had a very abusive past (read my journal) and attempted suicide about a year after our first son was born, and we ended up having to see a Christian counselor who was truly briliant. I was VERY skeptical of seeing a Christian counselor, because I thought she would just tell us our faith wasn't strong enough or whatever. I was completely wrong and I was totally impressed. She helped us talk things out, get to the real issues in our lives as individuals and as a couple, she put things into a Biblical perspective and gave us tools to use when we we're confronted with challenges. She was very intelligent, highly educated and had a great heart. My point I guess I want to make here is God worked through her to help us. That's infact why this woman does what she does. She wants to help people. As a Christian, she's relying on God to help her, along with her expertise in the area of counseling. I highly recommend you help your girlfriend find a good, Bible-based and educated Christian counselor, if nothing else, to help her overcome her abusive past.

My wife also grew up Christian, but it was mainly by name only. She recently rededicated her life to Christ, was baptised and is now doing incredible things (through Christ). She also gave her testimony at church and has had many people come up to her who have been abused and she's helping them get help. God is working through her too. He can do great things through your girlfriend as well. That's what he's known for, as I'm sure you know —*taking the ugly parts of our lives and not only making them beautiful and useful for his purposes. I'm praying for you guys.

God bless,
coemgen
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:59 AM   #162
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Shart, dear, I simply don't have time to read pages 6-11 of this thread, but I have something on my mind that I did not post last night - if you think you can literally pray this away, you are wrong, you're theology is ALL wrong there buddy. Does God posess the ability to change things on our behalf? Of course! He's God, right? Do WE posess the ability to CHANGE the mind of God? Nope, sorry. I'll tell you, I've always struggled with the idea of prayer and it's purpose, b/c while I'm very theological, I have trouble being spiritual. I used to pray so hard for people when I was little and nothing ever changed. After a while, I felt like I was doing it wrong or wasn't good enough for God to listen so I just stopped praying. In one of my theology classes, we read an essay on petitionary prayer (praying for God to do or not do something on one's behalf) by one of my favorite theologians, Friederich Schleiermacher, and this essay has changed my life.

Basically, if you take Biblical examples of people praying for things to happen/not happen to them, you can see that the point of petitionary prayer is NOT to actually have God act on your behalf, but to facilitate a thinking process where your will becomes aligned with that of God's. Take Jesus for example: he's in the Garden praying to God b/c he's scare. He knows his life is about to end in a horrible, painful way and he is praying if there's ANY way for it not to happen, please God let it not. Now if JESUS cannot change God's mind, do you think we can? Look closely at what happened to Jesus at that time. He prayed three times and each time his prayers changed from being scared and pleading with God for his death not to happen to "if it be thy will". As he prayed and voiced his fears to God, he began to calm down and come to the point where he was prepared to face whatever God asked of him.

Now, I'm know I'm getting a bit off-topic and I didn't really want to go all theological on everyone, but since you brought the Bible into this debate in the first place, my point is, in the posts I'm reading, you're like "well, guys, let's all just keep praying...and it will all go away..." No, that's now how it works. You gotta pray to God so you can ACCEPT these issues between you and your girlfriend and prepare yourselves to deal with them. Praying won't change a physical thing; it helps you vent and brings you closer to God as you deal with this, allowing you to sort through your emotions...like how people say it's good to talk things over with close friends and it's good to cry about things. It's good to pray because it can help you deal with these emotions and help calm you down, but you can't just pray the problem away.

Like I said, I hate busting out the theology b/c it's a very personal thing and for people that don't care, it's not particularly fun or interesting, but since you keep bringing up the Bible, the can of worms is out there now.....I'm ready to defend my position if needs be. If you want to read a copy of the essay I've referred to (which I think you should), I'd be happy to hook you up.

EDIT: I'd like to add my personal experience with this sort of prayer - my prayers have never been answered directly. Like when I was in grade school and I felt like I had no real friend and was lonely so I'd pray and pray for a best friend to move next door and we'd be like sisters. That never happened, BUT after a while, I realized how cool this one friend I already had was and I began to make an effort to spend more time with her and get to know each other better. Our paths have changed, but I'll always say she was the best friend I've ever had and I believe our relationship filled whatever void we each had for the time we were together and I have no regrets. So from my experience, Schleiermacher was right. My prayers, as I prayed them, were not answered, but they helped me see things differently and make it work so indirectly, they WERE answered.
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:22 AM   #163
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^ great post

spells out a lot of misconceptions i've had about prayer, in that it always does sound like a child writing a wish list to Santa.

thanks.
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:22 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Basically, if you take Biblical examples of people praying for things to happen/not happen to them, you can see that the point of petitionary prayer is NOT to actually have God act on your behalf, but to facilitate a thinking process where your will becomes aligned with that of God's.
I agree that we need to get our will aligned with God instead of the other way around.

But prayer is very powerful, as a petionary method and as weapon in spiritual matters, as the following verses tell us:

"Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to this Fig Tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." (Matthew 21:21-22)

"Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise . Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in The Name of The Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:13-20)
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:25 AM   #165
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I would suggest listening to what melon, pax, and others have said. Please get help, from both a pastor and a counselor.

You don't have to go it alone...
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