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Old 02-04-2008, 10:33 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


So you're saying that the war in Iraq is essentially a civil war in a relatively poor country?
No, I said the Korean war was essentially a civil war which is not the situation that you have in Iraq. That Iraq "is a Civil War" is the catch phrase Democrats love to use to justify withdrawal. Never mind I guess that Democrats supported military intervention in two real civil wars in the 1990s in Bosnia and Kosovo. Iraq is not a poor country compared to 1950 Korea. In fact, if it was not for Saddam, Iraq could potentially be the riches country in the middle east.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:42 PM   #92
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That Iraq "is a Civil War" is the catch phrase Democrats love to use to justify withdrawal.
I love how you describe every counter-argument as a "liberal catchphrase."
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:21 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


No, I said the Korean war was essentially a civil war which is not the situation that you have in Iraq. That Iraq "is a Civil War" is the catch phrase Democrats love to use to justify withdrawal.
You are the one roughly equating one president and his war to the other.

Or maybe the two aren't that comparable.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:38 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


Or maybe the two aren't that comparable.


they are when they need to be in order to justify the indefensible.

it's amazing how one will gloss over the Korean War as "essentially" a civil war, and yet kick and scream and sob about how Sunnis and Shiites slaughtering each other and battling for control of Baghdad somehow isn't a civil war.

facts only exist to be shaped. this is what the WMD fiasco has taught us.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:12 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


No, just because someone may be relatively unpopular in the opinion polls during part of their Presidency does not mean that will remain so years later.
So maybe, just maybe, Bush will still be considered one of the worst presidents in U.S. history 50 years from now.

Oh, and I was just wondering. Is the reason people like Harry Truman so much these days because of his handling of the Korean War?
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:13 AM   #96
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My money is on Clinton but my heart is with Obama.

I'd be happy to lose the money.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:16 AM   #97
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I want to vote for Edwards, but if I can't I'm voting for Obama.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:24 AM   #98
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Bush is the worst President we've ever had. The idiot!
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:17 AM   #99
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Originally posted by maycocksean
My money is on Clinton but my heart is with Obama.

I'd be happy to lose the money.

I agree.

When [Bill] Clinton said Obama is a roll of the dice, my response was I want to take that bet!
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:26 AM   #100
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I think it will be a draw between Obama and Clinton, and this will continue for quite a while.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:31 AM   #101
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The whole delegate count is making peoples heads spin.

As someone who's a dunce when it comes to math I'm counting on NBC's Chuck Todd to explain it all to me.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:42 AM   #102
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As someone who's a dunce when it comes to math I'm counting on NBC's Chuck Todd to explain it all to me.
Hahaha.... yes, he's one of the few NBC people I like.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:26 AM   #103
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I will be happy with a draw.

Honestly, if Hillary triumphs, trounces, or trumps, I will be despondent (at least we have the Bonnaroo lineup coming out to console all).
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:04 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




they are when they need to be in order to justify the indefensible.

No, besides being important to US national security, the two wars were comparable in the level of how unpopular they became inside the United States, and how that impacted the Presidents approval rating at the time. Yet, today no one criticizes Truman for his military intervention in Korea and South Korea went on to become one of the wealthiest and strongest nations on the planet with one of the worlds highest standards of living and an important ally to the United States.

Quote:
it's amazing how one will gloss over the Korean War as "essentially" a civil war, and yet kick and scream and sob about how Sunnis and Shiites slaughtering each other and battling for control of Baghdad somehow isn't a civil war.
Sectarian violence in mainly one city does not equal a civil war no matter how much you want to kick, scream, sob, dream, or fantasize that it does. The United States military does not consider the conditions they have experienced on the ground in Iraq to be that of a Civil War. There is the potential for a civil war there, but so far it has only been a possibility, not a reality. Pre-mature withrawal as proposed by Obama could make what is only a possibility(a decreasing one) at the moment into a reality.


Quote:
facts only exist to be shaped. this is what the WMD fiasco has taught us.
Many that are uninformed about Iraq and the issue of WMD prior to 2003 have that view.
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:11 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


You are the one roughly equating one president and his war to the other.

Or maybe the two aren't that comparable.
The only thing I was comparing was both presidents level of unpopularity at the same respective time in their administrations primarily because of a war that had momentarily become unpopular(less than 50% of the country supporting it). The wars are comparable in the sense that they were both important to US national security, and became unpopular with the US public as they went on, hurting each Presidents approval ratings.
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