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Old 03-10-2005, 05:20 PM   #46
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I still like TOS best, the Klingons were bad guys without the entire honour thing built up to ridiculous levels, they had miniskirts and also Kirk is a republican; it's bloody brilliant

See we can tie politics into Trek very easily.

I agree with Voyager being shonky (and then Janeway being a freaking Admiral ) but latest season of Enterprise (Season 4) with Coto at the helm has been great ~ btw, the Beebs must go!
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Old 03-10-2005, 05:23 PM   #47
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that's too amusing.
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Old 03-10-2005, 05:33 PM   #48
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by A_Wanderer
See we can tie politics into Trek very easily.


Sigh. Here we go again.
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Old 03-10-2005, 05:35 PM   #49
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Hey if you wan't to get over politics fatigue then start an argument over the plausibility of the federation economy, or the prime directive or any number of other relevent Trek dillema's that we find in the real world.
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Old 03-10-2005, 05:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Hey if you wan't to get over politics fatigue then start an argument over the plausibility of the federation economy, or the prime directive or any number of other relevent Trek dillema's that we find in the real world.

Any difference between arguing trekkie politics and real world politics. I'd only become fictionally fatigued.
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Old 03-10-2005, 05:44 PM   #51
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honeybuns, you've got an obsession.


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Old 03-10-2005, 05:45 PM   #52
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Yeah but the emotional investment just isn't there ~ it is more intellectually stimulating.
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Old 03-10-2005, 05:47 PM   #53
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well thats good..............

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Old 03-10-2005, 05:53 PM   #54
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Plus it's got the entire secular humanist philosophy permeating every level
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Old 03-10-2005, 05:56 PM   #55
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so this is what trekkies are like.............

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Old 03-10-2005, 06:05 PM   #56
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There can be some decent thoughts in media analysis, although sometimes it can get out of hand. Perhaps the term is close textual analysis, sticking with what's known and not speculating about other factors. It is a fine line because more essays that use some pop-culture reference seem to be utter tripe.
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Old 03-11-2005, 02:25 AM   #57
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Kirk is a republican
I never liked him much, anyway. He was always a bit too smug - it was Spock and McCoy who did it for me. Do you think Picard was probably leaning towards a more 'liberal' approach? I would have thought so, except for when he was dealing with anything that remotely resembled the Borg.

I do agree 'Enterprise' is getting better, and I also think that you can't really knock TOS... I just really adored TNG because it was intensely political (I adored the way they introduced Cardassians later on, and how they provided the segue into DS9) and had fantastic character arcs.

Forgive me, but damnit, a Star Trek politics Thread really sounds good to me. Anyone game?

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Old 03-11-2005, 03:02 AM   #58
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I am but we will need a few ground rules ~ such as maybe capping allegory. Stuff like the Cardassian Occupation of Bajor is representative but I do not wan't it to start getting too far into real world events ~ even though Trek has always been loaded with allegory. Debate the Trek and not the Real World maybe a few little bits should nudge in; but I don't want to be labelled a hypocrite for advocating one action in the real world but in Trek universe taking a different one.

Picard was in many wars a superior officer but when it came to the here and now Kirk had "it" just look at his solution for the Kobayashi Maru ~ and then when dealing with Khan (okay I just bought the Directors Cut). Enough though I have no problem with either of them, Sisko was good, I personally like Archer ~ Bakula can pull it off, Janeway gets the thumbsdown from me. Okay thats the other rule, we can't let it generate into Kirk is better than Picard type thread.

I may have been a bit too disparaging of TNG, I just get frustrated with the Prime Directive sometimes ~ I know there are concequences to actions (ENT: Dear Doctor the obvious nod to why the Prime Directive was formed) but still. Sometimes you just want to see them step in and solve the problem, I really like it when they get involved for better or worse it creates that tension (and that is invariably the only time that the Prime Directive is raised to any major extent, when it is a plot device).

There were plenty of TNG episodes that were really stimulating Measure of a Man was one ~ the arguments of conciousness etc. The earlier Q episodes were great ~ when he had the more sinister element to his actions. I liked TNG but I didn't grow up with it; I only watched it in repeats in High School after I got hooked on DS9.

I still lean a bit more to DS9 in the way that it wasn't utopian in it's vision. It showed some of the lower human characteristics off that we just didn't see in the other series. Now as for this being within the framework for Trek, to take away that utopian vision of the future, I think it was. It helped fill in gaps and presented more dillemas and dillemas are the essence of Drama ~ not to underplay the moral points; like The Quickening where Bashir through his arrogance in thinking he can cure an entire people with a blight inflicted by The Dominion winds up killing his patients through his treatment. Putting the Federation at war and that backdrop throughout the later part of the show was also a big factor in it. The dilemas posited in DS9 are broad and have existed for millenia but they remain very relevent, perhaps even moreso today.
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