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Old 11-04-2006, 03:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'm not implying anything. I'm telling you there's nothing in the Bible that says how a government should be ran or the role of the government.
Centuries of government would disagree with you there; in the real world there are plenty examples of the Bible being a guide for governance and that makes it dangerous - if we take Christianities record of theocracy out of the picture we might as well be calling Islam a religion of peace.
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Old 11-04-2006, 03:30 PM   #32
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But that was not how the early Christians behaved. They believed Jesus was going to return like a thief in the night and were preoccupied with preparing their hearts for the arrival of the kingdom. Fighting the Romans was seen as unimportant and secondary because the early Christians did not consider themselves to be part of this earth. One of the large reasons the split from Judaism occurred is because groups of early Christians did not want to participate in revolts against the polytheist Romans - they gathered that they could very well live in a non-Christian society because their place was really in heaven and all of this was temporary.

Somewhere along the way this got perverted and today's conservative Christians have taken completely the opposite stance.
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Old 11-04-2006, 03:39 PM   #33
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A religion can't remain in early single digit century form - the meme had to evolve and frankly meek and humble personal faith has no chance in the real world; theocracy is the end product of any one religion, a condition of social organisation where it reigns supreme and proliferates without impedance.
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Old 11-04-2006, 03:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
frankly meek and humble personal faith has no chance in the real world;
Your statement is too absolute to be correct because you've used the "personal" qualifier.

Had you been talking about a religion in general, it would be different.

But as stated, I believe you're rather easily proven wrong.
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Old 11-04-2006, 04:04 PM   #35
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I am talking about a religion that defines itself as a personal element versus one that explicitly commands obedience to some form of power on Earth. I think that the latter is incompatiable with controlling swaths of people whereas that former is an ideal in a free society.
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Old 11-04-2006, 04:09 PM   #36
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That's another matter.

The way you put it originally suggested you were talking about a personal faith (ie that of a single believer) and I think there are just tons of examples of people who live completely meek and humble existences in the name of their faith.
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Old 11-04-2006, 04:13 PM   #37
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Yes there are but that is not the theology upon which kingdoms and empires are built.
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Centuries of government would disagree with you there; in the real world there are plenty examples of the Bible being a guide for governance and that makes it dangerous - if we take Christianities record of theocracy out of the picture we might as well be calling Islam a religion of peace.
That's not what I stated, yes it's followers have peverted it's meanings, but as far as anything in the bible about the role of the government, there is none.
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Old 11-05-2006, 04:39 AM   #39
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Yes there are but that is not the theology upon which kingdoms and empires are built.
Ain't that the truth.
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Old 11-06-2006, 02:22 PM   #40
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Originally posted by DaveC


But you apparently don't know what trolling means - creating a thread with a sensational title with the intent of riling up anger = TROLLING.

Intent of riling up curiousity is not trolling. If you get angry over such a thread title, you'll get angry over anything.
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Old 11-06-2006, 02:24 PM   #41
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Originally posted by melon
I know the sentiment.

Melon
Funny - I never plan to run for office. It doesn't matter in my case.
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Old 11-06-2006, 02:31 PM   #42
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Intent of riling up curiousity is not trolling.
Curiosity? I think there was more intent than that, it had the same intent, as say, your signature...
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Old 11-06-2006, 02:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
None of that says anything about the role of government, it says how one should honor the government.
It doesn't specify the size of government, that is correct. However, if there are people who apply their faith to every aspect of life, they will unapologetically apply it to their vote. Whether it's discouraging citizens from self-destructive behavior (usually a conservative stance), or state-sponsored charity (usually a liberal stance), people who see each other as brothers will hit the polls in an effort to improve societal conditions. Faith-based voters also see The Bible, etc. as not only books about personal salvation, but books that can be applied in order to civilize society.

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code... laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws."
-John Quincy Adams

"If 'Thou shalt not covet,' and 'Thou shalt not steal,' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free."
-John Adams

"All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."
-Noah Webster
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Old 11-06-2006, 02:40 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Curiosity? I think there was more intent than that, it had the same intent, as say, your signature...
So I take a jab at an impulsive, reactionary man-child. Big whoop. I've seen plenty of signatures that, ahem... imply that the Bush administration is evil. But unlike you, I don't try to silence those I don't agree with.
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Old 11-06-2006, 04:31 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
It doesn't specify the size of government, that is correct. However, if there are people who apply their faith to every aspect of life, they will unapologetically apply it to their vote. Whether it's discouraging citizens from self-destructive behavior (usually a conservative stance), or state-sponsored charity (usually a liberal stance), people who see each other as brothers will hit the polls in an effort to improve societal conditions. Faith-based voters also see The Bible, etc. as not only books about personal salvation, but books that can be applied in order to civilize society.

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code... laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws."
-John Quincy Adams

"If 'Thou shalt not covet,' and 'Thou shalt not steal,' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free."
-John Adams

"All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."
-Noah Webster
Still no scripture stating the role of government...
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