Faith-based voters should be shot

[A_Wanderer]

I'm not implying anything. I'm telling you there's nothing in the Bible that says how a government should be ran or the role of the government.

Centuries of government would disagree with you there; in the real world there are plenty examples of the Bible being a guide for governance and that makes it dangerous - if we take Christianities record of theocracy out of the picture we might as well be calling Islam a religion of peace.

 

[anitram]

But that was not how the early Christians behaved. They believed Jesus was going to return like a thief in the night and were preoccupied with preparing their hearts for the arrival of the kingdom. Fighting the Romans was seen as unimportant and secondary because the early Christians did not consider themselves to be part of this earth. One of the large reasons the split from Judaism occurred is because groups of early Christians did not want to participate in revolts against the polytheist Romans - they gathered that they could very well live in a non-Christian society because their place was really in heaven and all of this was temporary.

Somewhere along the way this got perverted and today's conservative Christians have taken completely the opposite stance.

 

[A_Wanderer]

A religion can't remain in early single digit century form - the meme had to evolve and frankly meek and humble personal faith has no chance in the real world; theocracy is the end product of any one religion, a condition of social organisation where it reigns supreme and proliferates without impedance.

 

[anitram]

frankly meek and humble personal faith has no chance in the real world;

Your statement is too absolute to be correct because you've used the "personal" qualifier.

Had you been talking about a religion in general, it would be different.

But as stated, I believe you're rather easily proven wrong.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I am talking about a religion that defines itself as a personal element versus one that explicitly commands obedience to some form of power on Earth. I think that the latter is incompatiable with controlling swaths of people whereas that former is an ideal in a free society.

 

[anitram]

That's another matter.

The way you put it originally suggested you were talking about a personal faith (ie that of a single believer) and I think there are just tons of examples of people who live completely meek and humble existences in the name of their faith.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Yes there are but that is not the theology upon which kingdoms and empires are built.

 

[BVS]

Centuries of government would disagree with you there; in the real world there are plenty examples of the Bible being a guide for governance and that makes it dangerous - if we take Christianities record of theocracy out of the picture we might as well be calling Islam a religion of peace.

That's not what I stated, yes it's followers have peverted it's meanings, but as far as anything in the bible about the role of the government, there is none.

 

[maycocksean]

Yes there are but that is not the theology upon which kingdoms and empires are built.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

But you apparently don't know what trolling means - creating a thread with a sensational title with the intent of riling up anger = TROLLING.

Intent of riling up curiousity is not trolling. If you get angry over such a thread title, you'll get angry over anything.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I know the sentiment.

Melon

Funny - I never plan to run for office. It doesn't matter in my case.

 

[BVS]

Intent of riling up curiousity is not trolling.

Curiosity? I think there was more intent than that, it had the same intent, as say, your signature...

 

[Macfistowannabe]

None of that says anything about the role of government, it says how one should honor the government.

It doesn't specify the size of government, that is correct. However, if there are people who apply their faith to every aspect of life, they will unapologetically apply it to their vote. Whether it's discouraging citizens from self-destructive behavior (usually a conservative stance), or state-sponsored charity (usually a liberal stance), people who see each other as brothers will hit the polls in an effort to improve societal conditions. Faith-based voters also see The Bible, etc. as not only books about personal salvation, but books that can be applied in order to civilize society.

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code... laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws."
-John Quincy Adams

"If 'Thou shalt not covet,' and 'Thou shalt not steal,' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free."
-John Adams

"All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."
-Noah Webster

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Curiosity? I think there was more intent than that, it had the same intent, as say, your signature...

So I take a jab at an impulsive, reactionary man-child. Big whoop. I've seen plenty of signatures that, ahem... imply that the Bush administration is evil. But unlike you, I don't try to silence those I don't agree with.

 

[BVS]

It doesn't specify the size of government, that is correct. However, if there are people who apply their faith to every aspect of life, they will unapologetically apply it to their vote. Whether it's discouraging citizens from self-destructive behavior (usually a conservative stance), or state-sponsored charity (usually a liberal stance), people who see each other as brothers will hit the polls in an effort to improve societal conditions. Faith-based voters also see The Bible, etc. as not only books about personal salvation, but books that can be applied in order to civilize society.

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code... laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws."
-John Quincy Adams

"If 'Thou shalt not covet,' and 'Thou shalt not steal,' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free."
-John Adams

"All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."
-Noah Webster

Still no scripture stating the role of government...

 

[BVS]

So I take a jab at an impulsive, reactionary man-child. Big whoop. I've seen plenty of signatures that, ahem... imply that the Bush administration is evil. But unlike you, I don't try to silence those I don't agree with.

Where have I tried to silence you? Please show me!

I just haven't seen Dean force people out of their jobs, blacklist, or jail people; so I really don't think you have a grasp of what McCarthyism really was...

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Where have I tried to silence you? Please show me!

I just haven't seen Dean force people out of their jobs, blacklist, or jail people; so I really don't think you have a grasp of what McCarthyism really was...

You have a special talent for avoiding the issue and getting personal.

"I hate Republicans and everything they stand for" - Howard Dean

You seem to know as much as a rock about the Venona cables and the Cold War, not that it has ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC. But nice try.

 

[BVS]

You have a special talent for avoiding the issue and getting personal.

There wasn't any issue to avoid, if there was this thread would be full of real discussion rather than telling you the title was wrong.

"I hate Republicans and everything they stand for" - Howard Dean

You seem to know as much as a rock about the Venona cables and the Cold War, not that it has ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC. But nice try.

How does that quote come close to McCarthyism?

I'll wage you a bet. You give me a shred of evidence that your signature holds water and I'll never bother you about your sig again no matter how bad it is. But if you can't, and it has to be convincing evidence, then you have to write "Halleluiah Rumsfeld gone!!!" and keep it as your signature for a whole week.

Are you up for it?

 

[deep]

many faith based voters should be thanked!!!!


many of them turned their backs on Bush and the GOP this time around

they have seen the light
they could no longer stomach the corruption


and see these people for the frauds they are.

many faith basers voted for traditional marriage (not my personal belief)

but against the GOP and for the DEMs
they no longer see the GOP as the party with better values,

 

[80sU2isBest]

many faith based voters should be thanked!!!!


many of them turned their backs on Bush and the GOP this time around

they have seen the light
they could no longer stomach the corruption


and see these people for the frauds they are.

many faith basers voted for traditional marriage (not my personal belief)

but against the GOP and for the DEMs
they no longer see the GOP as the party with better values,

Actually, rather than directly voting for the Dems, I think most just stayed home.

 

[deep]

Actually, rather than directly voting for the Dems, I think most just stayed home.

polling says a decent portion of evangelicals voted Dem this time.

citing Foley (cover-up) Abranoff, misrepresentation about Iraq

 

[BVS]

polling says a decent portion of evangelicals voted Dem this time.

citing Foley (cover-up) Abranoff, misrepresentation about Iraq

Maybe the country is getting wiser?

 

[rk08642]

I've never really understood this issue. You should vote for what you think is best for your country, and if you have strong faith, it can't help but be an influence, right? If your faith tells you that abortion is wrong, or the war is wrong, for example, should you ignore that?

 

[BVS]

I've never really understood this issue. You should vote for what you think is best for your country, and if you have strong faith, it can't help but be an influence, right? If your faith tells you that abortion is wrong, or the war is wrong, for example, should you ignore that?

But if your religion said man shouldn't shave the hair at his temples, is that best for the nation? I think one needs to vote using their morals but also their logic. How is allowing men to shave going to effect others?

What's best for the country? What's useless?

That's the line...

 

[80sU2isBest]

But if your religion said man shouldn't shave the hair at his temples, is that best for the nation? I think one needs to vote using their morals but also their logic. How is allowing men to shave going to effect others?

BVS, comparing shaving to abortion?

 

[deep]

If your faith tells you that abortion is wrong, or the war is wrong, for example, should you ignore that?

Who is making you have an abortion or go to war?

 

[BVS]

BVS, comparing shaving to abortion?

Is that what you got from that?

No, I'm not making a comparison, I'm making the point that there's a certain line of imposing your religion into legislation.

I understand people who vote against abortion(that may surprise some of you), but I don't understand bans against gay marriage or complaining about removing 10 commandments in state and federal buildings.

For these things are PURELY relgious beliefs(of certain religious people) and aren't for the better of all the countries citizens. For neither of these things are needed to protect it's citizens.

For they have no logic involved.

 

[anitram]

Great news in South Dakota. I was surprised that ban was rejected by what looks to be a double digit margin.

 

[martha]

Great news in South Dakota. I was surprised that ban was rejected by what looks to be a double digit margin.

I think the good people of SD found out the truth of the old saying "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." And then they had to fix it but quick.

 

[AEON]

many faith based voters should be thanked!!!!


many of them turned their backs on Bush and the GOP this time around

they have seen the light
they could no longer stomach the corruption


and see these people for the frauds they are.

many faith basers voted for traditional marriage (not my personal belief) ...

This is very true for myself and the conservatives I know. But we did not vote for the lesser of the two evil (Dems) - we are just disheartened by the Republicans lately.