Fairy Tales Linked To Violent Relationships - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-25-2005, 05:58 AM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 06:25 PM
Isn't the first thing they teach you in intro to psych "correlation does not prove causation"?
__________________

__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 06:14 AM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Saracene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia, some time after tea
Posts: 6,325
Local Time: 11:25 PM
I don't know how much influence the fairy tales really have, but the bit about female passivity in many of them is definitely there. Personally as a kid I always preferred heroines like Gerda in Andersen's "Snow Queen" - she was NO pushover. I started to think about the fairy tales in a more critical light after reading Terry Pratchett's "Witches Abroad"; he does a great job of parodying fairy tales and their conventions. As one of the characters remarks, just because a guy can hack heroically through the bush and kiss a sleeping princess doesn't mean he's going to be a good husband.

It's funny, I knew a person once who was convinced that Cinderella was in fact a scheming little girl who knew very well how to keep a man hooked... running away oh so mysteriously and conveniently leaving a shoe behind and all,
__________________

__________________
Saracene is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 08:57 AM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Princess Leia versus Marion Ravenwood, hmmm Marion every time.
right! marion was awesome.

ever notice how my favorite female characters play opposite your favorite male characters?

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 06:21 PM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,267
Local Time: 05:25 PM
In regards to the "females being passive" thing in the stories...course, then again, you gotta consider the time period a lot of these stories were written in. At that time, that is genuinely what people believed. Do I agree women should be passive? Uh, well, speaking as a woman, I'd definitely say no. But that's what the time period was like. Those stories are basically a reflection of a certain time period.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 07:37 PM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Bono's shades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 5,038
Local Time: 06:25 PM
I think blaming fairy tales for women getting into violent relationships is a little bit simplistic. I think the kind of family you are brought up in has a lot more to do with it. A girl who grows up with a father who doesn't treat females respectfully would be more likely to marry a guy like that because she would think that's "normal."
__________________
Bono's shades is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 08:35 PM   #21
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 06:25 PM
This is quite interesting. While I don't think this is just an A then B scenario, it does allude to a characteristic of someone who has bigger issues. It's as if the woman in that relationship as an adult doesn't want to live in reality and therefore falls back onto the submissive stereotype. That being said, how many women want to marry a guy like Lloyd Dobler, standing under our winder wooing us with a stereo playing "In Your Eyes" or wishing our lives were as romantic as those in a Sandra Bullock movie? How do you view a 25-year-old woman who has decided to have a Disney/Cinderella themed wedding? Same thing, different age level.

I don't think the fairy tales are causing the problem. But if you have a girl who won't let go of that fairy tale mentality when she gets older, that's where the problem lies. And you have to remember that as the girl gets older, the Cinderella story turns into a crush on the Backstreet Boys which turns into an obsession with chick flicks and chick lit which turns into a warped belief in how an adult relationship should be. The interesting thing would be to see what happens to the girls who liked fairy tales as kids, but are not in abusive relationships. What changed as they grew up to get them out of that mentality?
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 08:45 PM   #22
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in temporary exile
Posts: 61
Local Time: 11:25 PM
Think about the fact that we, in the U.S. at any rate, live in an escapist culture. Some people fantasize about being rescued from some cruel fate by a prince or knight in shining armor.
__________________
verte is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 09:05 PM   #23
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by verte
Think about the fact that we, in the U.S. at any rate, live in an escapist culture. Some people fantasize about being rescued from some cruel fate by a prince or knight in shining armor.
Or being rescued by Tom Cruise, George Clooney or Ben Affleck. And seriously, who do you think reads those trashy Fabio books -- people in stable or unstable relationships? As I said, different age, same issue.
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 09:50 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,267
Local Time: 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
The interesting thing would be to see what happens to the girls who liked fairy tales as kids, but are not in abusive relationships. What changed as they grew up to get them out of that mentality?
Well, I liked fairy tales simply because of the way the story was told, not because of the way the guys acted. And I'd just always grown up being taught that I had the right to speak up for myself and do my own thing. I think this is a rather true assessment:

Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's shades
I think blaming fairy tales for women getting into violent relationships is a little bit simplistic. I think the kind of family you are brought up in has a lot more to do with it. A girl who grows up with a father who doesn't treat females respectfully would be more likely to marry a guy like that because she would think that's "normal."
Exactly.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 04-25-2005, 09:51 PM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 06:25 PM
This thread just got me thinking about how maybe sometimes we're correlating things incorrectly. Let me offer a different example: many people believe there is a correlation between doing gymnastics for 40 hours a week and having stunted growth/puberty. The truth is that by the time girls train 40 hours a week, the ones capable of doing so typically ARE smaller and develop later on. Studies have shown that looking at the genes of the mother is the best indicator, not how much the training stunts growth.

The point? Maybe this thread is backwards. I've never had any interest whatsoever in "fairy tale" princesses that are being described here as weak and submissive. So, what if girls that are already predisposed to being victims of violent relationships are more likely to be interested in these fairy tale princesses? That makes more sense to me.
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 04-26-2005, 01:56 AM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
beau2ifulday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 5,512
Local Time: 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
So, what if girls that are already predisposed to being victims of violent relationships are more likely to be interested in these fairy tale princesses? That makes more sense to me.
It makes more sense in general - I think it's a natural thing to turn away from reality, or at least the reality of the situation, when faced with any difficult circumstances (for many people, at least). Running with that idea, like the fairy tale princesses, the woman in question would also expect to be 'rescued' at some point, but I guess it is at that point that the fantasy of the situation breaks down.

I'm not sure what I think of that theory anyway - perhaps if the person was fascinated with the early version of fairy tales (Red Cap, etc) then it would seem a little more likely.
__________________
beau2ifulday is offline  
Old 04-26-2005, 08:02 AM   #27
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in temporary exile
Posts: 61
Local Time: 11:25 PM
I definitely think that violent behavior takes a predisposition, and the fairy tale link is most likely coincidental. These kids already have all sorts of problems.
__________________
verte is offline  
Old 04-26-2005, 08:29 AM   #28
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:25 PM
Is this a surprise? Do not fairy tales and nursery rhymes all have dark undertones?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 04-26-2005, 10:02 AM   #29
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in temporary exile
Posts: 61
Local Time: 11:25 PM
I'm not worth a damn at this kind of social science. There is definitely a difference between sociology, where this study comes from, and history, which is my background.
__________________
verte is offline  
Old 04-26-2005, 08:39 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
starsgoblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Looking for direction to perfection
Posts: 17,828
Local Time: 06:25 PM
Coming from somone who was in an abusive relationship.....I didn't find or stay in one because I watched too many older Disney movies or because I wasn't hugged enough growing up... It was because of one thing: fear. Fear of that one person.
__________________

__________________
starsgoblue is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com