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Old 09-30-2002, 01:35 PM   #1
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Factory Farms

http://www.factoryfarm.org/

An intro in What a Factory Farm is :
http://www.factoryfarm.org/facts-ffintro.html
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Old 09-30-2002, 02:40 PM   #2
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please revel in my midwestern-ness

i grew up in minnesota and live in south dakota, so i know a lot about corporate farms. there are a few things that these sites touch on, but i'd like to bring them up.

1. family farms are expensive. between paying for their children and having hired hands and keeping up with government standards all adds up. and there is a lot left to chance. in minnesota this summer, conditions were perfect for soy beans and corn. but in south dakota (and indiana) there was a HUGE draught. meaning minnesota grain prices can be raised because of the laws of supply and demand. south dakota didn't produce well this summer, so their grain prices are low, and since farmers didn't get a *great* yield, they have little to sell for little. so with their low profits, they have little left over for their families and have to sacrifice somewhere or take out loans. most farmers take out government subsidized loans with extremely low interest rates, but they still have to pay it back and if there were a few years in a row with low yields, family farms tend to go bankrupt. also, it's harder and harder to get families to pass on the farm. as kids see more opportunity out there, be that by going to college or whatever, they are inclined not to want to inherit the farm. between this and economics, the family farm is increasingly hard to pass on and succeed.

2. corporate submission tends to create more security than the government does. so this summer south dakota had a devistating draught, and the government is promising money. LOTS of money. the farmers will likely not see this money for some time, time to legislate and pass (sorry, but states like new york and california screw the midwest farmers over so badly, the senators don't get the clue), then time to delegate funds...by the time the funds *do* arrive it is after a loan has been taken out and the farmer is already in debt.


it's good then, that there are farmer-owned co-ops, basically confederations of "small" farms so they aren't alone in their plights.
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Old 09-30-2002, 06:09 PM   #3
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Farming is a funny thing....so much emotion and nostalgia wrapped up in how we view it. We don't try to mandate that shoes be made by hand by the local cobbler in a shop in every town, yet some people want laws to make sure that our food is produced on small, picturesque farms. I think both situations would be ideal (shoes from local one-man shop and food from local small-scale, diverse farm), and thankfully, both are currently available to me. But because of the price difference, I choose shoes and food that are produced on a larger scale.
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Old 09-30-2002, 10:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase
We don't try to mandate that shoes be made by hand by the local cobbler in a shop in every town, yet some people want laws to make sure that our food is produced on small, picturesque farms.
This reminds me of something I noticed in my town a few years ago:

Some PETA or Animal Liberation Front or whatever protestors were protesting meat eating, yet several of them were wearing leather jackets and Doc Martens.

~U2Alabama
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Old 10-01-2002, 12:30 AM   #5
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what always gets me is when people clamour for the small farmer to stay in business but then bitch and whine if they have to pay 10 cents extra for a gallon of milk, or if their fruits and vegetables at the supermarkets aren't ripe and fresh enough, not that farmers see any profit from higher prices

Bama, there was a movement by PETA (when I say movement I mean extortion) earlier this year to get the NCAA, NBA and NFL to ban leather products from being used (ie, football, baseballs, gloves), of course we all know how great synthetic materials are for the environment, the NCAA seems to have caved in, go figure!
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Old 10-01-2002, 11:20 AM   #6
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Originally posted by The Wanderer
what always gets me is when people clamour for the small farmer to stay in business but then bitch and whine if they have to pay 10 cents extra for a gallon of milk, or if their fruits and vegetables at the supermarkets aren't ripe and fresh enough, not that farmers see any profit from higher prices

yeah, this would be a benefit of a corporate farm. there is still a lot that needs to be worked out in how farmers get their profit. and i think you in virginia there pay more for milk than me in south dakota *points at cows on the edge of town* for me a half gallon is only $1.12.
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Old 10-01-2002, 12:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


This reminds me of something I noticed in my town a few years ago:

Some PETA or Animal Liberation Front or whatever protestors were protesting meat eating, yet several of them were wearing leather jackets and Doc Martens.

~U2Alabama

This reminds me of me,....a couple of years ago. I used to clear my conscience to point out the faulths of other people. ( Sometimes i still do )

Anyway, it is not the faulth of the farmers that the have to keep the animals on a barbaric way or have to use poison. They have to make a living. This will change if we want to pay more money for ecologic and poisonfree food it will be cheaper at the end. And more farmers will change their way of farming ( i still believe that farmers want the best for the animals )


Principles cost money, make your own choice.


BTW, i wonder if there is enough farmground on this planet for ecologic farming.
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Old 10-01-2002, 02:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono


BTW, i wonder if there is enough farmground on this planet for ecologic farming.
i found these numbers that maybe will help you with finding an answer to your probably rhetorical question:

facts on the netherlands:

Area: total: 41,526 sq km

land: 33,883 sq km

water: 7,643 sq km

Population: 15,981,472


facts on south dakota:

75,885 sq miles (46,512.42 sq km)

pupulation: just over 700,000


there are only 9.9 people per square mile here, versus 471.7 people per square kilometer there. i hope that illustrates how much space one state has versus one country.


there is plenty of room for economic, small family and corporate farming.
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Old 10-01-2002, 11:02 PM   #9
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HOGWASH!

All those in favor of corporate farms have apparently never had one move into your town or even county. My home county is now home to a certain giant pig corporation. Only one town in the county was allowed to vote on whether the pig company could set up shop, and they approved it. They thought it would bring jobs and money to the area.

Let me tell you, living so close to a factory farm can be great. You can hear all kinds of horror stories about what happens to the pigs from your one friend who works there. You can smell ammonia any time a breeze picks up. Some lucky folks even get water contaminated with feces and urine sprayed within close distances to their households. I know people who can't even sit out on their porches any more from the stink. If there are heavy rains, the pig ponds full of, you guessed it, feces and urine, can overflow and contaminate the ground water. That was a major problem after hurricane Floyd hit North Carolina.

I could go on and on about how great it is, but most of it is anecdotal evidence, and some of it isn't very politcally correct to say. Suffice it to say that said town and county are now trying desperately to get the pig farm to pack up and go away. And perhaps they will go away, off to find another naive town/county to ruin.

Wake up people. Factory farms suck in all kinds of fantabulous ways. And for the record, this rant of mine has nothing to do with animal rights or how the pigs are treated. But after hearing about what happens to the pigs from my friend who was in charge of slaughtering them, let's just say that even if you don't care how the pigs are treated, you should care what's happening to your future food. Nasty stuff.

So YEA! for factory farms.

Sorry for the edit. I'm so pissed I can't even get my grammar correct!
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Old 10-02-2002, 12:40 AM   #10
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which is why the confederacy of small farms is so good. the advantages of corporate farming without all of that (woa, pun alert) hogwash.
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Old 10-02-2002, 12:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
Principles cost money, make your own choice.

Exactly. the problem w that one is that 90 percent of the people still choose the cheaper food. I canīt understand it. I mean do you need a third TV instead of eating good healthy food.

Anyway... if principles cost money and people make their choice and only 10 percent choose the right thing, shouldnīt the politicians adopt this theme for their agenda and pass some decent laws? I do think so.

One more note... it is no difference to eat a pig who was treated like the last shit or eating your cat or your dog. Why donīt you eat Kitty?

But I may also say that I have failed to get a vegetarian because I like meat that much. Although I am the opinion that if you eat it, you also have to be able to cut its throat, to kill it, to see the chicken running around without its head. Worse things happen to animals in the big corporate farms. And we better pray everyday for the life we take.
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