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Old 03-31-2005, 10:26 PM   #16
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how do you prove that killing is wrong by killing someone?

the point is to be better than the criminal, not sink to his level.
Yes, but does this persuade other criminals to stop from commiting crimes?

I am sure that if someone realized that they could have the same thing done on to them if discovered they'd twice about what they're going to do.

The idea that the legal system shouldn't "stoop as low as the criminal" won't stop the criminal from actually stooping that low his or herself.
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Old 04-01-2005, 01:57 AM   #17
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You are entering dangerous territory here. Playing arbiter or who is really a Christian is best avoided.
I am not playing arbiter. This is a genuine question. Do Christ's teachings get to be ignored? Do we get to pick and choose? How do Christians deal with the philosophy quoted by Melon or are they just nice words with no real practicality? Anyone can call themselves anything they want, but I am bewildered. Just want to know where everyone is coming from.
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:18 AM   #18
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I am sure that if someone realized that they could have the same thing done on to them if discovered they'd twice about what they're going to do.
Yeah it's doing a bang up job so far.

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Old 04-01-2005, 06:05 AM   #19
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
I am not playing arbiter. This is a genuine question. Do Christ's teachings get to be ignored? Do we get to pick and choose? How do Christians deal with the philosophy quoted by Melon or are they just nice words with no real practicality? Anyone can call themselves anything they want, but I am bewildered. Just want to know where everyone is coming from.
A quick survey of FYM will show a multitude of examples of "pick and choose" philosophy. Some will out-right say it. Others will be accused of it.
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Old 04-01-2005, 06:27 AM   #20
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Yes, but does this persuade other criminals to stop from commiting crimes?

I am sure that if someone realized that they could have the same thing done on to them if discovered they'd twice about what they're going to do.

The idea that the legal system shouldn't "stoop as low as the criminal" won't stop the criminal from actually stooping that low his or herself.

no one commits a crime expecting to be caught, and in the US, it's a proven fact that the death penalty is not a deterrant to crime, and in fact the states that implement the death penalty have much higher murder rates than states that do not.
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Old 04-01-2005, 07:41 AM   #21
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A quick survey of FYM will show a multitude of examples of "pick and choose" philosophy. Some will out-right say it. Others will be accused of it.

Anybody willing to tackle my real question? Are the teachings of Christ in the Gospels commandments or are they just nice, comforting words without real teeth?
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:26 AM   #22
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Anybody willing to tackle my real question? Are the teachings of Christ in the Gospels commandments or are they just nice, comforting words without real teeth?
People treat them as both.

If they "have teeth" their must be consequences for failing to obey such commands.

You really have asked two separate questions here:

1. What are the basic requirements for someone to be a Christian?

2. How does our failure to follow all of God's Commands impact our life?
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:07 AM   #23
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


People treat them as both.

If they "have teeth" their must be consequences for failing to obey such commands.

You really have asked two separate questions here:

1. What are the basic requirements for someone to be a Christian?

2. How does our failure to follow all of God's Commands impact our life?
While I think your questions are an interesting addition to the conversation, my question is quite simple and direct.

In the personal views of the individual Christians on this board, are the passages cited by Melon from the Gospels commandments or not?
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:15 AM   #24
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Yes, I would say they are examples of some of the many commands given to us by God.
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:52 PM   #25
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Yes, but this isn't about neighbor to neighbor relationships in which you are asked to forgive and to love.

This is more of a father/son (state/person under the law) relationshipl; the kind that Proverbs asked that a Father should be strict in punishing and creating discipline in his child.
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:27 AM   #26
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But the New Testament is a new ballgame, isn't it?
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:12 AM   #27
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Yes, but this isn't about neighbor to neighbor relationships in which you are asked to forgive and to love.

This is more of a father/son (state/person under the law) relationshipl; the kind that Proverbs asked that a Father should be strict in punishing and creating discipline in his child.


and this is why we have separation of church and state and why most of us do not want to live in a theocracy. so that the government doesn't create laws and punishments from the bible. i don't care what the bible thinks the relationship should be between the individual and the state; i simply want the best form of government possible, which does not come from biblical interpretation but from trial and error and respect for law and property and persons and is constantly shifting and changing and that government and law are living, breathing things that humans, and humans alone, create and fashion.

the bible is historically important, and part of western heritage, and many of our notions of right and wrong come from the bible because it provides a source of authority that's unquestionable (God) at least to it's believers (and many, many people don't believe in the bible).
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Yes, but this isn't about neighbor to neighbor relationships in which you are asked to forgive and to love.

This is more of a father/son (state/person under the law) relationshipl; the kind that Proverbs asked that a Father should be strict in punishing and creating discipline in his child.
So, if the son kills someone, should the father be expected to kill the son? That doesn't make sense to me.

On another note, I'm glad that the "turn the other cheek" philosophy was brought up. Even though I see where you're coming from (that this is a different kind of relationship), I think too many people forget about that passage in the bible.
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:31 AM   #29
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to irvine. excellent points.

the fact is, the death penalty does NOT deter people from committing some horrendous crime.

then preaching killing is wrong, only to turn around and punish killing with killing, is extremely hypocritical.
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:34 AM   #30
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Originally posted by Irvine511
and this is why we have separation of church and state and why most of us do not want to live in a theocracy.


I couldn't have stated it better. I am a Christian but I would NEVER want to live in a Christian theocracy. Jesus himself never advocated any political party or stance nor took it upon himself to be involved in running the government even though it was what was expected of the Messiah. I think it sets a good precedent for the kind of role religion is meant to play in politics.
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