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Old 10-04-2006, 09:18 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: extremist christian terrorist hijacks plane!!

Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want


As to the issue of this guy being a terrorist or not, I'd like to inform you about how the event actually took place, with eyewitness accounts: (in Turkish, unfortunately, but I hope my word carries some weight)

http://www.cnnturk.com/TURKIYE/haber...haberID=240821

The pilot, when describing the event, has identified the suspect as 'a terrorist, who was fully aware of his actions'. He has also said that the suspect knew the meanings of the flight codes and emergency regulations. According to both the pilot and the passengers, the suspect claimed that he had a bomb and he would blow up the plane unless his demands were met.

How is this person not a terrorist? Does it make any difference if he actually did not have a bomb? Now, if this was a Muslim on board a United Airlines flight, I do not think you would take the event this lightly. Apparently, the definition of terrorist changes depending on which religion they believe in, I did not know that.
Question: When you originally called this guy a terrorist, did you know any of this, or did you learn it after you called him a terrorist?

The article you original posted said nothing about threats; all it said was that he may have shown the pilot a "Package", but it wasn't sure.

At that time, based on that information, you called the guy a "terrorist", which lumped him in a group with people who chop off heads.

What we know now has nothing to do with what you said at that time.
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Old 10-04-2006, 09:37 PM   #32
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i dont want to fly now. not that i did before opening this thread...that said, if anyone's going to cause trouble for me on tuesday, i'd take a band of unruly fundie christians armed with bibles over...well, pretty much anyone else in terms of threat and trouble!

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Old 10-04-2006, 11:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Melon, When he said that, he was answering a specific question: "Should we pay taxes to Caesar"?

I think that to say this is any kind of statement about separation of church and state is a big bit of a stretch.
Really? How about "My kingdom is not of this world"?
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


Really? How about "My kingdom is not of this world"?
His kingdom is not of this world, and yet he is King over all creation.

That quote also does not address the separation of church and state.
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest



That quote also does not address the separation of church and state.
Oddly enough - the term "separation between church and state" does not exist in the Constitution either. It is a Jefferson quote from the Federalist Papers.
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Oddly enough - the term "separation between church and state" does not exist in the Constitution either.
But does it state the opposite?
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Oddly enough - the term "separation between church and state" does not exist in the Constitution either. It is a Jefferson quote from the Federalist Papers.


so you want the government telling you how you can worship?

this goes both ways.

want to destroy american christianity? get the government involved.
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


His kingdom is not of this world, and yet he is King over all creation.

That quote also does not address the separation of church and state.
Perhaps not in the context of the U.S. Constitution, but I think Jesus made it clear from the get-go that His followers should not be engaged in setting up worldy kingdoms in His name. Every time Christianity has ignored this direction from Christ the results have been horrible. He is indeed King over all creation, has no need for His followers to try to "make it official."

I'm not saying a Christian can't be involved in politics nor am I suggesting that his/her beliefs can't guide in the decisions he/she makes (after all EVERYONE has some sort of value system they use to guide their decisions). I'm just saying that Christianity (or any other religion) should not be legislated.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:33 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

I'm just saying that Christianity (or any other religion) should not be legislated.
"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven"

Matthew 6:9
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:41 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven"

Matthew 6:9
So it's now a call for theocracy?
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:45 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" - Matthew 6:9
I tend to think that "give to Caesar" verse is more on target than this, which I consider to be a huge stretch.

"God's will" will be done on Earth. He doesn't need humans to pretend to know His will for Him; because then it's no longer "God's will." It's "man's will."

And I've certainly discussed how the "Divine Right of Kings" can take the concept of "God's will" to abusive and extremist ends, not to mention that Al Qaeda is a glaring example of this abuse within Islam.

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Old 10-05-2006, 12:46 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Oddly enough - the term "separation between church and state" does not exist in the Constitution either. It is a Jefferson quote from the Federalist Papers.
Whatever term you wish to call it, the separation of church and state has been upheld through judicial rulings, so I'd say that the concept is in the Constitution after all.

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Old 10-05-2006, 02:12 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



want to destroy american christianity? get the government involved.
This is already being done.
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Old 10-05-2006, 02:21 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


want to destroy american christianity? get the government involved.

Actually this needs to be reworded:

If you want to destroy Christianity? Get the government involved. For "american christianity" is a return to the religion of the pharisees.
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Old 10-05-2006, 09:44 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven"

Matthew 6:9
To the extent that this phrase could be seen as Jesus borrowing from the Kaddish Orthodox and Conservative Jews still recite twice a day, which contains a phrase very similar to this (nothing in the Our Father is unfamiliar from a Jewish liturgical POV)--and affirming the hope with which many of his Jewish contemporaries must surely have prayed this, i.e., for a full restoration of Jewish law as the law of the land--then this intepretation makes some sense.

However, in the context of the Gospels it seems to me melon's interpretation makes a lot more sense--Jesus does not seem to have been interested in resisting Roman rule as other 1st cen. BC-second cen. AD messianic aspirants did, even though it was pagan and its legal, administrative and law enforcement (punitive) systems foreign and imposed by force.
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