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Old 04-18-2008, 10:41 PM   #16
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Because God isn't an answer, it is an admission of ignorance but with the cowardice of not stating that you don't know. I am able to admit that I don't know how one type of species will survive during a mass extinction while another perishes, it is a very complicated question with scant evidence but I will not inject the illusion that God is either an acceptable explanation or a desirable one.
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:50 PM   #17
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No. This is not correct. It is an answer, acknowledging at the very least that it can't all be known. You just admitted that.

Look, Stein brings up some good questions. Here's a bit of an interview. If it's been posted before, I apologize:

Interviewer: I know of scientists who subscribe to Darwin's theory of evolution but also are people of faith, who believe in God, and don't find the two mutually exclusive. In the movie, I didn't see that perspective there, of people who might be both.

Stein: There are definitely people who are people of faith and have no problem with Darwinism. To tell you the truth, up to a very large point, I have no problem with Darwinism. I think Darwinism as a theory explaining evolution within species is incredibly brilliant, just unbelievably incredibly brilliant.

But, as a theory that explains everything in terms of evolution--in terms of development of life, it explains very, very little. Darwinism doesn't explain where gravity comes from. It doesn't explain where thermodynamics comes from. It doesn't explain where the laws of physics come from. It doesn't explain where matter came from.

To tie everything together, God seems like the only logical explanation.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
No it doesn't, DaveC. Religion is a set of beliefs. What if you said Creator, or intelligent being? It can still be used as a part of someone's line of thought on how things came to be in a general sense.
"Faith" does not equal "belief" to you? Can I see the dictionary you've been using, it's different than all the ones I've ever seen. :scratch.

Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen

He's not a Judeo-Christian. He's a Jew.

Read the first four words again.
I don't know whether to laugh, make fun of you, or feel sorry for you here.

I think I'll laugh, and hope (please, please, please) that you were being sarcastic.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:11 PM   #19
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Originally posted by coemgen But, as a theory that explains everything in terms of evolution--in terms of development of life, it explains very, very little. Darwinism doesn't explain where gravity comes from. It doesn't explain where thermodynamics comes from. It doesn't explain where the laws of physics come from. It doesn't explain where matter came from.

To tie everything together, God seems like the only logical explanation. [/B]
When has anyone with half a brain ever said that "Darwinism" (which is a foolish term invented by religious-types who are trying to make it seem like it's blind faith on the level of religious belief to discredit the science behind it) has to explain gravity, or thermodynamics, or physics? They all have their own scientific laws to govern them, which have nothing to do at all with evolutionary theory/natural selection.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen

If Hindus want to speak their mind on it, go for it!
Are you so naive to believe that the people pushing ID would welcome the Hindu myths of creation and destruction taught to their children?
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC


"Faith" does not equal "belief" to you? Can I see the dictionary you've been using, it's different than all the ones I've ever seen. :scratch.



I don't know whether to laugh, make fun of you, or feel sorry for you here.

I think I'll laugh, and hope (please, please, please) that you were being sarcastic.
Dictionary.com has the following definition of Judeo-Christian:

"of or pertaining to the religious writings, beliefs, values, or traditions held in common by Judaism and Christianity."

So, we're talking someone who would believe both the Old and New Testaments. Stein is Jewish, and therefore doesn't accept the New Testament.

Are you still laughing?
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


Dictionary.com has the following definition of Judeo-Christian:

"of or pertaining to the religious writings, beliefs, values, or traditions held in common by Judaism and Christianity."

So, we're talking someone who would believe both the Old and New Testaments. Stein is Jewish, and therefore doesn't accept the New Testament.

Are you still laughing?
Yes. Except now I'm laughing AT you.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Are you so naive to believe that the people pushing ID would welcome the Hindu myths of creation and destruction taught to their children?
No, I'm not. I'm saying I'd be up for everyone sharing their views though.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC


Yes. Except now I'm laughing AT you.
Why?
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC


When has anyone with half a brain ever said that "Darwinism" (which is a foolish term invented by religious-types who are trying to make it seem like it's blind faith on the level of religious belief to discredit the science behind it) has to explain gravity, or thermodynamics, or physics? They all have their own scientific laws to govern them, which have nothing to do at all with evolutionary theory/natural selection.
OK, first off, why do you have to be so insulting? That's part of what the movie is getting at, and you're living up to it. Have a discussion, and drop the insults.

That said, Darwinism doesn't have to explain gravity, thermodynamics or physics. Stein didn't say that, and I'm not. The point is, it doesn't explain everything. When you piece stuff together, it's hard for many, many people to rationally accept that it's all just here by chance.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


Why?
You posted the definition yourself and still got it wrong.

Pardon my French, but that's fuckin' hilarious.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:22 PM   #27
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Let's hear your definition.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen

That said, Darwinism doesn't have to explain gravity, thermodynamics or physics. Stein didn't say that, and I'm not.
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen The point is, it doesn't explain everything.
This is getting really entertaining.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
Let's hear your definition.
Let's just say there's a reason it's "Judeo-Christian" and not "Christian".

EDIT: Fuck it, I'll bite.

Quote:
Judeo-Christian (or Judaeo-Christian, sometimes written as Judæo-Christian) is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in common by Judaism and adapted by Christianity, and typically considered by some (sometimes along with classical Greco-Roman civilization) a fundamental basis for Western legal codes and moral values. In particular, the term refers to the common Old Testament/Tanakh (which is a basis of both moral traditions, including particularly the Ten Commandments); and implies a common set of values present in the modern Western World. The term has been criticized by some for suggesting more commonality than may actually exist. (Compare with Ebionites and Judaizers.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-christian

Judeo-Christian = Judaism & Christianity
Ben Stein = an adherent of Judaism
therefore,
Ben Stein = Judeo-Christian

But of course, now we're arguing a stupid point that really has little to do with the topic.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:26 PM   #30
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Let's just say there's a reason it's "Judeo-CHRISTIAN," and not "Judeo."

You're digging your own grave with your logic here.

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