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Old 09-09-2005, 04:38 PM   #16
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Re: Re: Executive Order

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Originally posted by nbcrusader


You weren't really expecting an answer here, were you....

The Davis-Bacon Act has been suspended following other natural disasters. Katrina is by no means the first time.

The rationale is that prevailing wage are usually based on union-negotiated wages - not the true prevailing wages in the area. It has been sited before Congress that Davis-Bacon actually inflates the cost of a construction project by as much as 38%.

Suspension of Davis-Bacon allows for faster recovery and the creation of more jobs in the recovery.
Thank you. I didn't know this. This is to help the hurricane victims. Bravo! See, I don't always get pissed at Bush.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:39 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Lally1011
Remember, the media wants to grab your attention. That's all they care about. Facts can be presented in many many many ways. It's up to you to dissect it and understand the truth. That's difficult to do simply because it requires a lot of time. Many of us are content to draw conclusions based on what we're reading on CNN or MSNBC.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:42 PM   #18
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First, Davis-Bacon was originally passed by Republicans.. shows how far the party has drifted.

The whole idea of the law is to take wages out of the equations in public bidding projects. Other factors then must be considered such as overall quality of work, and other efficiences.

That whole rationale you quote is highly contested by legitimate research. It has been shown that in places without prevailing wage laws, instead of making construction cheaper, it was often more expensive. Contractors had more cost overruns, mistakes, shoddy work, and more workplace injuries.

So, yes prevailing wages are aligned with wages and fringe packages union bargaining agreements. Prevailing wages are not just about salary, but also take into account things like healthcare and pension.

Of course you'll be able to hire more labor for the same amount of money. Of course prevailing wage is going to inflate the cost of a construction project. That is self-evident. Prevailing wage is established by the free market in an area, but if unions are part of that free market, the prevailing wage usually is higher than what the government could get away paying. This reconstruction project itself will be huge, thus driving down wages for everyone else.

The line of reasoning, specifically for the Katrina disaster doesn't make sense. With such horrible working and living conditions, especially in some areas- any normally operating business would have to pay hazard wages for many jobs. What incentive is there to come back and work in such conditions without prevailaing wage? People are scattered across the nation.

Bush is trying to have his cake, and eat it too. Let's advocate lowering of medicines, now too, especially as thousands of Katrina victims will be added by Medicare and Medicaid programs.

What the people need now, more than anything is diginity, not slave labor. It seems as if the majority of the spending bill is going into the lining of corporate pockets, and not on rebuilding lives with sustainable living wages. Reconstruction efforts are being implemented by the elite establishment: http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/st...566200,00.html

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:45 PM   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

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Originally posted by MrBrau1


It's my tax money. Get it spent as efficiently as possible.
At what cost? Is it really "efficient" that this will actually end up siphoning money into corporate pockets? Because the idea that more work can be done for the same amount of money just doesn't add up.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
QUOTE]Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm glad someone sees "logic" in screwing the laborers.



Responses like this only add fire to the accusations that Bush opponents will blame him for anything.

If suspending the Davis-Bacon Act is better long term for an area like New Orleans, then it should be suspended.

Instead of making a reactionary comment as you did above, get the facts and at least attempt to understand the rationale behind certain decisions.
[/QUOTE]


Well, when he is to blame, I'll call him on it. And this goes for what I believe to be systemic corruption and bad policy on both sides of the aisle.

What facts? I'm sorry, but the interpretation of "facts" are in dispute here.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:49 PM   #21
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

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Originally posted by elfyx


At what cost? Is it really "efficient" that this will actually end up siphoning money into corporate pockets? Because the idea that more work can be done for the same amount of money just doesn't add up.
More work can be done for the same money. Just spend less on each worker, and get more of them.

It couldn't be any easier.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:50 PM   #22
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

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Originally posted by MrBrau1


More work can be done for the same money. Just spend less on each worker, and get more of them.
it's the american way!
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:50 PM   #23
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

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Originally posted by MrBrau1


More work can be done for the same money. Just spend less on each worker, and get more of them.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
[B]QUOTE]Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm glad someone sees "logic" in screwing the laborers.


Responses like this only add fire to the accusations that Bush opponents will blame him for anything.

If suspending the Davis-Bacon Act is better long term for an area like New Orleans, then it should be suspended.

Instead of making a reactionary comment as you did above, get the facts and at least attempt to understand the rationale behind certain decisions.
So tomorrow when you walk into work you find your salary is cut significantly. Your boss explains to you that for the last 6 years we've been giving the CEOs these great benefits, we know you haven't seen any of these benefits but they're the rich guys they deserve it. Now the company is having some problems so we cut your salary. No of course we didn't cut their salary, but come on your lucky to have this job. Yeah you may not be able to feed your family the way you have in the past but look at it this way, we can hire more people. You have to pay for it, not the rich guys.

I hope you would find logic in that explanation because that's exactly what is happening.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:55 PM   #25
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1


More work can be done for the same money. Just spend less on each worker, and get more of them.

It couldn't be any easier.
I'm sure you would appreciate that "logic" at your work place.
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:00 PM   #26
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hey...I have a solution....

Let's get Jimmy Carter and his posse to rebuild.

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Old 09-09-2005, 05:17 PM   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'm sure you would appreciate that "logic" at your work place.
The real world alternative is higher wages for fewer workers.

What do you say to those who want to work, but can't get the jobs because of the mandated compensation levels?
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:28 PM   #28
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

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Originally posted by nbcrusader


The real world alternative is higher wages for fewer workers.

What do you say to those who want to work, but can't get the jobs because of the mandated compensation levels?
That sounds good, but I don't think it's as simple as that.

I guess we can debate whether its better to have fewer appropriately compensated workers, or more poorly compensated workers.

Unfortunately, the whole point may be moot, because as far as I can determine is that neither are happening. Rather, the extra money to be used for more poorly compensated workers, are actually going to go straight into corporate coffers. Sure, there may be a few extra jobs generated (to questionable benefit), but in the end, it appears to be a cash-grab. To me, anyway. The shell-game continues, even in the face of a disaster. Profiteering off a disaster, especially during wartime, is morally repugnant and just plain bad policy.
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:46 PM   #29
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'm sure you would appreciate that "logic" at your work place.
That logic applies at my workplace.

It applies in every business.
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:56 PM   #30
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
What do you say to those who want to work, but can't get the jobs because of the mandated compensation levels?
I'd say the federal government should be willing to invest enough money in this area to pay a fair wage to those involved in this work. Paying lower wages is intended to save the government money -- Bush's executive order explicitly acknowledges that the fact they are required to pay a living wage increase the cost to the government:

Quote:
The wage rates imposed by section 3142 of title 40, United States Code, increase the cost to the Federal Government of providing Federal assistance to these areas.
I think the government should prove itself willing to invest the necessary funds in the relief effort, including the necessary funds to pay workers a decent wage. If that means people don't get a tax refund this year or the wealthy don't get a tax cut then so be it -- I think helping people in the areas affected by the hurricane (and paying people a decent wage will help them rebuild their lives) should be prioritised above tax cuts or refunds.
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