Excommunication for Kerry, Kennedy, Cuomo, Harkin because of abortion stance. - U2 Feedback

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Old 10-19-2004, 07:25 AM   #1
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Excommunication for Kerry, Kennedy, Cuomo, Harkin because of abortion stance.

[Q]OSTON, Oct. 18 - A canon lawyer seeking to have Senator John Kerry excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church because of his support for abortion rights said on Monday that he had ammunition in the form of a letter issued at the request of a senior Vatican official.

The lawyer, Marc Balestrieri of Los Angeles, who heads a conservative Catholic nonprofit organization called De Fide, also said that, based on the letter, he would now seek to have four other Catholic politicians excommunicated: Senators Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, Tom Harkin of Iowa, Susan Collins of Maine, and Mario M. Cuomo, the former governor of New York.

"Senator Kerry, and all pro-choice Catholic politicians, who publicly call themselves Catholic yet who blatantly violate canon law by continuing to profess heresy and receive Holy Communion, must publicly reject their abortion advocacy for the sake of their own souls, and the others they have scandalized," Mr. Balestrieri said in a statement. "They have been excommunicated."

Only Ms. Collins is not a Democrat.

The letter to Mr. Balestrieri, written by another American canon lawyer at the request of a Vatican official, says that "if a Catholic publicly and obstinately supports the civil right to abortion, knowing that the church teaches officially against that legislation, he or she commits that heresy" and is "automatically excommunicated."
[/Q]http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/politics/campaign/19catholic.html?ei=5006&en=b622b6e310a31251&ex=1098849600&adxnnl=1&partner=ALTAVISTA1&adxnnlx=1098191168-rikNpRJ/mVca520364Dutw&pagewanted=print&position=




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Old 10-19-2004, 07:34 AM   #2
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This really makes me squirm and makes me angry, but I'm still proud to be a Catholic, and the "church" certainly doesn't tell me what to think or how to vote

If that makes me a "bad Catholic", then so be it
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:37 AM   #3
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Intradenominational judicial proceedings are not unusual. But going after individual congregants??? What would be left of the Catholic Church is all members who supported abortion were kicked out? Can you say schism?
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:42 AM   #4
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I'm guessing the Catholic church doesn't have mirrors, because they obviously haven't taken a good look at themselves recently.
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Old 10-19-2004, 07:58 AM   #5
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can't blame all catholics cuz of this one guy...
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:16 AM   #6
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You have to understand, to some people abortion is so evil, so vile, pure murder, and that anyone who supports it and perpetuates its availability with their votes is just as bad as a murderer to them. Even if they are personally opposed but allow others to have the 'right' they are still allowing it and approving of it and the blood is on their hands too. While it is wrong to single out certain people and not others (though I'm sure the public eye has a lot to do with that) they are going by what they feel is right. There are rules, and if you break them, you are not a good Catholic by their standards and maybe should choose another religion. You can't change the rules to suit what you want to believe so you won't have to feel guilty. If that were the case what good is religion at all? BTW I'm not a Catholic that's just how it looks to me.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:31 AM   #7
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

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Old 10-19-2004, 09:40 AM   #8
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You shouldn't choose another religion because you disagree with the Church's stance on abortion. I am a Catholic and I would never change that even though I am pro-choice. This guy is wrong. The Catholic Church was shamed by the child sex abuse charges brought against it. This guy should be going after those who wear the collar and sin so badly that it hurts the reputation of the church, not a few politicians that may disagree with doctrine.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
This guy should be going after those who wear the collar and sin so badly that it hurts the reputation of the church, not a few politicians that may disagree with doctrine.
Yes indeed, but they think all of this will divert attention from that I suppose

Doesn't work
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
You shouldn't choose another religion because you disagree with the Church's stance on abortion. I am a Catholic and I would never change that even though I am pro-choice. This guy is wrong. The Catholic Church was shamed by the child sex abuse charges brought against it. This guy should be going after those who wear the collar and sin so badly that it hurts the reputation of the church, not a few politicians that may disagree with doctrine.
You raise an interesting topic (perhaps for another thread):

Who defines our faith?

The Bible?
A Church?
An individual?
Ourselves?


And then we can look at doctrinal issues.....
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Old 10-19-2004, 10:31 AM   #11
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If I recall my catechism correctly, and it's only been a matter of months since I went to my last class (I took a refresher last year) the Catholic Faith is determined by the Pope and the Councils, and based on Sacred Tradition. We differ from the Protestants in that we don't have a concept of "the priesthood of all believers" and in having seven sacraments. Scripture is only part of sacred tradition, therefore some of our beliefs strike Protestants as "unbiblical" or "unscriptural", like the beliefs about Marian devotion and Purgary. Actually the belief about praying for the dead comes from a book accepted as canonical by Catholics but not Protestants, II Maccabees. We use the Alexandrian Canon for the Hebrew Scriptures and the Protestants use the Jerusalem Canon. Recently Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope John Paul's "right hand man" and a noted conservative, issued a statement saying that Catholic voters could decide for themselves on what they think of Politician X's contribution to a "culture of life". If we decide, say, that Kerry is better on this because of his position on health care issues, which I have, this is fair game. There was a stink when a bishop in Colorado issued a statement that Catholics who supported "pro-abortion" candidates couldn't get Communion. This statement was blasted by Pax Christi Illinois and publically disavowed by the Cardinal of Washington D.C, Cardinal McCurran. There was recently a controversy when they made some political statements on EWTN, a very conservative Catholic TV station. They don't represent the whole Church, the Pope, or anything but the conservative wing of the Catholic Church, which doesn't include me.
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Old 10-19-2004, 11:29 AM   #12
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I´d like to know who that senior Vatican official is.

I doubt the Church is going to excommunicate Kerry personally. The statement is "if a Catholic publicly and obstinately supports the civil right to abortion, knowing that the church teaches officially against that legislation, he or she commits that heresy" and is "automatically excommunicated."

From what I hear (and I only got that part of the text) it is an overall wishy washy statement, not mentioning John Kerry, and using terms like "automatically excommunicated"

Seems rather a media game by Balestirieri or/ and the Vatican, in the upcoming of the elections, than a real excommunication.
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Old 10-19-2004, 11:52 AM   #13
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How can Catholics be proud of their church or even want to be part of their church if they don't agree with Catholic views? Why not find a different church which suits your views? Cherry picking of church beliefs one will follow makes it all a little pointless doesn't it?
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


You raise an interesting topic (perhaps for another thread):

Who defines our faith?

The Bible?
A Church?
An individual?
Ourselves?


And then we can look at doctrinal issues.....



Not to mean any disrespect to any Catholics on here. I am a Christian but I have an enormous sense of uncomfortableness with the idea that I somehow need a buffer between God in the form of The Pope or a confessor.

In OT times, there was a need for such a buffer to seperate the profane from the Holy, as God's presence would dwell in the Holiest of Holies....the separation in the temple courts were for our protection rather than anything else. But if one studies the book of Hebrews you can clearly see that Jesus eliminated that need and became the High Priest himself. No buffer needed to commune with God.

I don't nessacarily see any goodness coming from excommunication...that's like throwing someone out to the wolves. People were meant to have relationship with each other for the sake of relationship, not to "reach" God. Spiritual community is important for that reason.

I guess I'm kinda making two points. But I hope my intention is clear....

My .02
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
How can Catholics be proud of their church or even want to be part of their church if they don't agree with Catholic views? Why not find a different church which suits your views? Cherry picking of church beliefs one will follow makes it all a little pointless doesn't it?
I don't think there is a church yet that I believe 100% in every little aspect. And as far as the abortion issue goes one can vote pro-choice and still hold the values of their church, I'm sorry that the church can't see that. I'm sorry that they don't have enough knowledge of the political system to see that he may be saving lives. If you ban abortion with in the current system you're sending women out to back alley abortion clinics and you're not allowing those that need one due to their own health to get one. It's not black and white like many would like you to think.

I'm glad some of you out there have found a religion or a system that you believe 100% on all issues. I, like many others, have not.
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