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Old 12-06-2007, 08:33 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


Which candidate most closely mirrors your view of the public domain or square?
Probably Dennis Kucinich, since he's the only one who believes in full gay marriage.

I mean, my belief is that religion should be public for the individuall. But it shouldn't be in things like law and politics.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:44 PM   #47
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Quote:
"...and during the holiday season, nativity scenes and menorahs should be welcome in our public places."
Uh oh, he said holiday season...

The loadedness of "public square" is what most of the contentiousness in interpreting his speech comes down to; unfortunately, he really didn't venture to elaborate on that beyond safely minor illustrations, e.g. "In God we trust" appearing on currency and the like.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:28 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
I mean, my belief is that religion should be public for the individuall. But it shouldn't be in things like law and politics.
Exactly. Be religious all you want, express it in public if you wish. But don't use your personal religious beliefs as a means to dictate the laws of the land. That is pushing your religion onto those who don't share your views, and that is wrong.

I really don't give a crap that Romney is Mormon. Seriously, I do not care at all. I'm not any more bothered by that than I would be if a presidential candidate was Catholic, or Muslim, or atheist, or whatever. All I'm concerned about with whomever becomes our next president is that they are qualified for the job and that they run the country in a fair and just manner. My problem with Romney and his religious beliefs is that I think he's too connected to them to keep them out of politics, and that is one reason of many why I can't vote for him. But I'd say that no matter WHAT his faith was.

And yes, there are people who have reservations about electing a Mormon for president-I saw some polls on MSNBC tonight that, if they're anything to go by, stated that people tend to associate the Mormon faith with things like polygamy, bigamy, and a cult-like status, and therefore are uneasy of letting a Mormon become president. But EVERY faith will be subject to assumptions and accusations of being "cult-like" and things like that. The Mormon faith is no more or less likely to be singled out than any other one.

MrsSpringsteen is right. Romney talks about how one's personal religious beliefs shouldn't be a factor when it comes to voting for them, and he's right. Which is why it doesn't make sense for him to keep harping on that. HE'S the one making it an issue, not anyone else (or if they are, they aren't doing it nearly as much as he is).

Angela
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:46 PM   #49
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all Romney did was say to the evangelicals, "i don't like those snooty, european-esque, educated, snotty east coast liberal intellectual secularists either."

and what's so funny, is that it's precisely those people who's rigorous defense of the public domain from the incursion of religion has created a country where something like Mormonism can flourish unfettered by anyone.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:49 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

Which, actually, begins the paragraph which ends with a part of the speech which I singled out as one of my favorites. The part that addresses the, forgotten by some, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" portion of the First Amendment.


but "the free exercise thereof" does not mean that you get to put crosses up in the post office and the 10 Commandments up in front of the state Supreme Court.

it means you get to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't infringe either upon the rights of others (which would include freedom from religion, insofar as the "public square" is concerned) and doesn't become a state endorsement of a particular religion.

but if you want to live in Christian Iran, just go ahead and say so.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:50 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Uh oh, he said holiday season...
Happy Hanukkah, yolland.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:36 PM   #52
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So what about the Muslim or the Scientologist that want to put up in the public square?
I knew this one wouldn't get answered...
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

but if you want to live in Christian Iran, just go ahead and say so.
Well, the violet to your red in this vastly overstated spectrum of belief systems would be me asking if you would prefer to live in the equivalent of the old secular Soviet Union.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:51 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


Well, the violet to your red in this vastly overstated spectrum of belief systems would be me asking if you would prefer to live in the equivalent of the old secular Soviet Union.
Uh ... no. That's a horrible comparison.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:58 PM   #55
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I think INDY's point was that both are hyperbolic.

However, that's no argument for dismissing the differences within our own considerably narrower political spectrum--they're still plenty far apart enough.


p.s. Thanks coemgen.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:09 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I knew this one wouldn't get answered...
I thought I answered. If a Muslim, Scientologist, Hindu or Atheist for that matter, could give Romney's speech (minus the small bit of theology), at the least, I would have less of a problem than some seem to be having with the public faith of Romney, Huckabee or President Bush.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:15 PM   #57
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There's a difference between public faith and faith that gets mixed in with policy.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
There's a difference between public faith and faith that gets mixed in with policy.
What public policy of Romney's as governor of Massachusetts was influenced by his Mormon faith.

How about Senate Majority leader Harry Reid? Any concerns with his Mormonism?
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:35 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


I thought I answered. If a Muslim, Scientologist, Hindu or Atheist for that matter, could give Romney's speech (minus the small bit of theology), at the least, I would have less of a problem than some seem to be having with the public faith of Romney, Huckabee or President Bush.
Not what I asked. Speech aside, what about their symbols in the public square? Shouldn't their religious symbols be in the courthouses and government buildings along with yours?
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:36 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


What public policy of Romney's as governor of Massachusetts was influenced by his Mormon faith.

Well what about his stance on gay marriage? It's purely religious.
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