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Old 12-08-2007, 10:28 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow

I was not the one who claimed that being against gay marriage derives only from a purely religious point of view.

One can support a wide variety of policies without being a religious person.

I think there is little to get all excited about in Romney's speech, unless your fishing for it.
What arguments are made that aren't religious?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:14 PM   #242
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You didn't have to claim that, it's fact.

Like I said there isn't one logical secular reason for it.
So why was it not allowed under the USSR?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:15 PM   #243
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


One that some of us are trying to change, I'm sorry you aren't.
And how would you know that?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:17 PM   #244
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Strongbow ... have you ever heard the expression "reading between the lines?"

And why do you think people in a democracy should not have equal rights?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:19 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You missed the point. The point is if you allow something that is strictly a religious view to become law, you open yourself to this law as well. These types of views need to be kept within the private lives, not the law.
Well, how could something that was "strictly a religious view" be the law of the land in the USSR which was openly hostile to religion?

Its rather simple, if you don't like the law regardless of whether you think it comes from a religious or non-religious point of view, don't support it.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:22 PM   #246
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Strongbow ... you're comparing apples to oranges.

In a democracy, Strongbow. In a democracy.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:26 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


And how would you know that?
Well you don't seem to care, let's put it that way.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:29 PM   #248
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
Strongbow ... have you ever heard the expression "reading between the lines?"

And why do you think people in a democracy should not have equal rights?
Yep, but sometimes when people "read between the lines", they create things that are not actually there or are not actually representive of that persons point of view.

For example, this strange presumption by you that because I said that, just because a country is a democracy does not mean everyone gets treated equally, you think I believe that people in a democracy should not have equal rights. I believe in equal rights for everyone.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:30 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Well, how could something that was "strictly a religious view" be the law of the land in the USSR which was openly hostile to religion?


Seriously you're just ruining your argument by constantly comparing apples to oranges, if this is all you have, then we're done in here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow

Its rather simple, if you don't like the law regardless of whether you think it comes from a religious or non-religious point of view, don't support it.
How deep of you.

Seriously, why do you think we're having this discussion. Would you tell those that opposed segregation, to simply 'not support it'. Hey, MLK, don't get all riled up, it's simple, just don't support it.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:32 PM   #250
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
Strongbow ... you're comparing apples to oranges.

In a democracy, Strongbow. In a democracy.
Nope, the fact that the USSR was not a democracy was not relevant to the point being made about ideas against gay marriage coming from only a purely religious point of view.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:36 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Yep, but sometimes when people "read between the lines", they create things that are not actually there or are not actually representive of that persons point of view.

For example, this strange presumption by you that because I said that, just because a country is a democracy does not mean everyone gets treated equally, you think I believe that people in a democracy should not have equal rights. I believe in equal rights for everyone.
Yes, but at the same time, if you read everything as it is and take everything at face value, you're going to get duped very easily, would you not? So, you have to find a healthy balance. That's why I'm having trouble with you continually asking for exact words and explicit statements. We're discussing politics. Doesn't usually work out that way.

And I think you missed the point of my statement, if you do believe in equal rights. My point was that as a democracy, everyone is supposed to get equal rights. Your statement says, "Not everyone in a democracy gets equal rights." If you mean that in practice, than I agree, and I think it needs to be changed. I thought you meant in your opinion and in theory.

I'm saying, the theory behind democracy is that everyone gets equal rights. And as a country that is a democracy, we need to do that.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:37 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow
Nope, the fact that the USSR was not a democracy was not relevant to the point being made about ideas against gay marriage coming from only a purely religious point of view.
What American politicians have arguments against gay marriage that aren't purely religious?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:39 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




Seriously you're just ruining your argument by constantly comparing apples to oranges, if this is all you have, then we're done in here.



How deep of you.

Seriously, why do you think we're having this discussion. Would you tell those that opposed segregation, to simply 'not support it'. Hey, MLK, don't get all riled up, it's simple, just don't support it.
Again, your the one that claimed that arguements against gay marriage come only from a purely religious point of view, correct?

Well, were not discussing segregation are we? Were discussing Mitt Romney, the Governer of the most liberal state in the Union, and a speech where he discussed his faith. I don't understand how you could claim that he is really against people of no-faith, let alone compare what he said in his speech to segregation of African Americans.

If members of the non-religious community in Massachusetts are not all riled up about him, why should anyone else be?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:42 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


Yes, but at the same time, if you read everything as it is and take everything at face value, you're going to get duped very easily, would you not? So, you have to find a healthy balance. That's why I'm having trouble with you continually asking for exact words and explicit statements. We're discussing politics. Doesn't usually work out that way.

And I think you missed the point of my statement, if you do believe in equal rights. My point was that as a democracy, everyone is supposed to get equal rights. Your statement says, "Not everyone in a democracy gets equal rights." If you mean that in practice, than I agree, and I think it needs to be changed. I thought you meant in your opinion and in theory.

I'm saying, the theory behind democracy is that everyone gets equal rights. And as a country that is a democracy, we need to do that.
You see, you have to be careful about how you interpret what other people have said, including what Mitt Romney says. Why not give Mitt Romney the benefit of the doubt, and seek clarification before you hang him for this or that?
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:43 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow
I don't understand how you could claim that he is really against people of no-faith,
Because he said so in his speech?

Quote:
There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adams’ words: 'We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.'

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.
He's almost literally saying, "If you don't believe in religion, you'll cause freedom to perish, and you disagree with the Constitution."
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