Ex-marine tells of being given 'carte blanche to kill' - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-02-2005, 06:25 PM   #1
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Ex-marine tells of being given 'carte blanche to kill'

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/11/02/story228407.html


"Mr Massey told Mr Brendan Nix SC, defending Ms Fallon, that prior to invasion he was briefed of the terms of the Geneva Convention and rules of engagement. He said he was told that intelligence reports "painted every Iraqi as a potential terrorist".

In response to Mr Nix’s query as to what was their "firing policy". Mr Massey replied: "To shoot first and ask questions later. We were given carte blanche to kill."

Asked by counsel if this was in breach of the Geneva Convention, Mr Massey replied: "Yes sir".

Mr Nix: "Did it happen?" - "It did, many times. Over a three month period more than 30 innocent people were killed that I know of."

Mr Massey, originally from North Carolina, said he joined the US Marines as a 19 year-old and served for 12 years before his honourable discharge in December 2003. As platoon sergeant he was in charge of machine gunners, missile men and scout snipers."
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:53 PM   #2
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Of course he's lying...
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:13 PM   #3
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Every Iraqi is a potential terrorist, especially considering their (the terrorists') habit of dressing in civilian clothing on their little missions.

That said, the shoot first policy is very troubling...well, I don't think troubling is really the right word.

I guess you expect this in wars, but it makes me sick.
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
Every Iraqi is a potential terrorist, especially considering their (the terrorists') habit of dressing in civilian clothing on their little missions.

That said, the shoot first policy is very troubling...well, I don't think troubling is really the right word.
This is the problem with this "war". We say we're liberating them, yet we treat them all like they are possible terrorists.

We went in due to this bogus "intelligence" about WMDs, then we changed it to be about a dictator and liberating...now we have created a front for insurgents that didn't exist before. BUT we had no plan for that!!! So now we train Iraqis, and then leave them with the mess.

This piss poor plan will never cure the Middle East.
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Old 11-03-2005, 03:17 AM   #5
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The problem is in the policy that forces them to make these kinds of decisions.

Survival can trump even the Geneva Code.
Akward position???
Thanks Rummy, Wolfy and DICK.
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:24 AM   #6
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I agree BVS, while I really hope this Iraq experiment somehow works, I don't see how it will.

I don't think it's unreasonable for soldiers to end up treating each civilian as a *potential* terrorist though, considering the number that have dressed in civilian clothing, approached army patrols, and then blown everything and everyone around them to bits.
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
I agree BVS, while I really hope this Iraq experiment somehow works, I don't see how it will.

I don't think it's unreasonable for soldiers to end up treating each civilian as a *potential* terrorist though, considering the number that have dressed in civilian clothing, approached army patrols, and then blown everything and everyone around them to bits.

I don't think it's unreasonable for POLICE to end up treating each civilian as a *potential* ARMED CRIMINAL though, considering the number that have dressed in civilian clothing, approached POLICE AND AMBUSHED THEM
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:14 PM   #8
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Wow, you even used asterisks around the word potential, good job there.

I love how everytime I post here I become an advocate of torture or racial profiling or something.

I think I should clarify my post. I understood the quote as saying each civilian was treated as a potential terrorist in the sense that one would be suspicious of anyone approaching a patrol, even in civilian clothing. Not that each civilian should be treated as an actual terrorist (shoot first, ask later). I don't think that's an unreasonable thing, considering it is a war after all. And one where at this point the primary threat is terrorist violence including suicide bombers.

But perhaps I misunderstood the quote.

Maybe some police officers work in such crime-ridden areas that they've come to be suspicious of anyone on the street. I don't know. I wouldn't blame them if they did. And yet at the same time, I don't advocate racial profiling or police brutality. Believe it or not.

I come on here and feel like a Nazi, go to school in this area and I might as well wear a shirt that says "Pinko Commie." oh well.
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
Wow, you even used asterisks around the word potential, good job there.

I love how everytime I post here I become an advocate of torture or racial profiling or something.

I think I should clarify my post. I understood the quote as saying each civilian was treated as a potential terrorist in the sense that one would be suspicious of anyone approaching a patrol, even in civilian clothing. Not that each civilian should be treated as an actual terrorist (shoot first, ask later). I don't think that's an unreasonable thing, considering it is a war after all. And one where at this point the primary threat is terrorist violence including suicide bombers.

But perhaps I misunderstood the quote.

Maybe some police officers work in such crime-ridden areas that they've come to be suspicious of anyone on the street. I don't know. I wouldn't blame them if they did. And yet at the same time, I don't advocate racial profiling or police brutality. Believe it or not.

I come on here and feel like a Nazi, go to school in this area and I might as well wear a shirt that says "Pinko Commie." oh well.


I just cut and pasted your words


The asterisks were yours


I used CAPS to high light the words I changed


I don't think you are a bad person

but why discount innocent Iraqis?
We would not stand for thousands of Americans being killed by Americans with the justification that

"Well, it is easy to mix up innocent people with guilty people."
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep




but why discount innocent Iraqis?
We would not stand for thousands of Americans being killed by Americans with the justification that

"Well, it is easy to mix up innocent people with guilty people."
Where did I suggest that we kill thousands of innocent Iraqis? I thought I clarified myself and my understanding of the quote...that I see no problem with being suspicious of even those dressed in civilian clothing, and avoiding close contact with civilians. I think I made pretty clear that I do not support a "shoot first, ask later" policy, a completely different thing. In other words, it's understandable to view civilians as potential terrorists, but not to treat them as known terrorists.

I'm not discounting innocent Iraqis at all.

semantics
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Old 11-08-2005, 02:03 AM   #11
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Interesting and relevent
Quote:
For more than a year, former Marine Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey has been telling anybody who will listen about the atrocities that he and other Marines committed in Iraq.

In scores of newspaper, magazine and broadcast stories, at a Canadian immigration hearing and in numerous speeches across the country, Massey has told how he and other Marines recklessly, sometimes intentionally, killed dozens of innocent Iraqi civilians.

Among his claims:
Marines fired on and killed peaceful Iraqi protesters.

Americans shot a 4-year-old Iraqi girl in the head.

A tractor-trailer was filled with the bodies of civilian men, women and children killed by American artillery.

Massey's claims have gained him celebrity. Last month, Massey's book, "Kill, Kill, Kill," was released in France. His allegations have been reported in nationwide publications such as Vanity Fair and USA Today, as well as numerous broadcast reports. Earlier this year, he joined the anti-war bus tour of Cindy Sheehan, and he's spoken at Cornell and Syracuse universities, among others.

News organizations worldwide published or broadcast Massey's claims without any corroboration and in most cases without investigation. Outside of the Marines, almost no one has seriously questioned whether Massey, a 12-year veteran who was honorably discharged, was telling the truth.

He wasn't.

Each of his claims is either demonstrably false or exaggerated - according to his fellow Marines, Massey's own admissions, and the five journalists who were embedded with Massey's unit, including a reporter and photographer from the Post-Dispatch and reporters from The Associated Press and The Wall Street Journal.
link

Of coure this is a smear job by g-men so it actually proves that he is telling the truth.
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Old 11-08-2005, 02:49 AM   #12
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Perhaps they could court-martial him even after his discharge on the grounds of claims of these sorts.

I am not sure that is available, but I don't see why they couldn't.
If I accused the local police of abusive treatment, they'd haul my ass into court and make me testify to it.

Let's see if he's willing to risk jail time in lieu of his book's profits.

Again, it may not even be available to the military to do so.
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