Ex-Iraq WMD Hunter Fears U.S. Credibility Erosion - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-04-2004, 06:36 AM   #16
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 03:16 AM
STING2:
I didn't say that the Soviet Union was innocent, but don't be surprised if people don't believe the things the US has to say anymore.

Some of them remember that Henry Kissinger visited the shah in May '72 and praised him because of the stability he brought to iran. And most people (incl. Americas Politicians) knew exactly what he did to his people.

I understand the strategic plans the US had for the arab world with all its oil, but you can be sure that it was horrible what the US did for long-term stability and credibility.
And Mr. David Kay is absolutely right when he warns about another credibility erosion if the US can't explanain why they talked about WMDs, 9/11, imminent danger and Al Quaide to justify the war in iraq.

Klaus
__________________

__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-04-2004, 12:47 PM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
STING2:
I didn't say that the Soviet Union was innocent, but don't be surprised if people don't believe the things the US has to say anymore.

Some of them remember that Henry Kissinger visited the shah in May '72 and praised him because of the stability he brought to iran. And most people (incl. Americas Politicians) knew exactly what he did to his people.

I understand the strategic plans the US had for the arab world with all its oil, but you can be sure that it was horrible what the US did for long-term stability and credibility.
And Mr. David Kay is absolutely right when he warns about another credibility erosion if the US can't explanain why they talked about WMDs, 9/11, imminent danger and Al Quaide to justify the war in iraq.

Klaus
The people who didn't believe what the USA has to say now did not believe what the USA had to say before the war.

What the USA has done for long-term stability and credibility is not horrible at all. Preventing World War III and insuring the security of most of the worlds energy supply are not horrible things. Nor is removing one of the worst dictators in history. Regardless of what terrorist and their supporters think, the USA has done the right thing in the region.

Dr. Kay was talking specifically about the US intelligence capabilities in regards to detecting WMD at certain places. He was not talking about the removal of Saddam which he still strongly supports.

As Dr. Kay and others know, the removal of Saddam was totally justified and necessary because of Saddam's failure to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD.
__________________

__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-04-2004, 07:56 PM   #18
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 03:16 AM
Quote:
The people who didn't believe what the USA has to say now did not believe what the USA had to say before the war.
you're right, but now it's easier for them to convince others that the USA judges by 2 different rules, one for themself and one for the other countries.

Quote:
What the USA has done for long-term stability and credibility is not horrible at all. Preventing World War III and insuring the security of most of the worlds energy supply are not horrible things.
right, but not all things they did since WWII prevented WWIII, some things were excelent, others not.

Quote:
Nor is removing one of the worst dictators in history. Regardless of what terrorist and their supporters think, the USA has done the right thing in the region.
just because i was against the iraq-war dosn't make me to a Hussein supporter or a terrorist. Thats that fu**ing Bush logic, if don't agree with my opinion you must be a terrorist etc.

Quote:
Dr. Kay was talking specifically about the US intelligence capabilities in regards to detecting WMD at certain places. He was not talking about the removal of Saddam which he still strongly supports.
I can understand people who wanted to remove Saddam Hussein with this war, i can't understand people who wanted to do that but made up stories about non existing links to al-quaida, links to 9/11 and told the public stories that saddam is ready to arm his rockets with biochemical warheads in 45 minutes when they should have known that it wasn't true.
The only source they had was rated "not reliable" and it was a relative of the man who was lobbying pro iraq war for 10 years now.
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-04-2004, 08:24 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus


you're right, but now it's easier for them to convince others that the USA judges by 2 different rules, one for themself and one for the other countries.



right, but not all things they did since WWII prevented WWIII, some things were excelent, others not.



just because i was against the iraq-war dosn't make me to a Hussein supporter or a terrorist. Thats that fu**ing Bush logic, if don't agree with my opinion you must be a terrorist etc.



I can understand people who wanted to remove Saddam Hussein with this war, i can't understand people who wanted to do that but made up stories about non existing links to al-quaida, links to 9/11 and told the public stories that saddam is ready to arm his rockets with biochemical warheads in 45 minutes when they should have known that it wasn't true.
The only source they had was rated "not reliable" and it was a relative of the man who was lobbying pro iraq war for 10 years now.
Klaus,

I was not referering to you when I said terrorist and their supporters. In addition, Bush has never claimed that those that don't agree with the United States are terrorist. The Bush administration continues to work with France and Germany despite their disagreements over policy in Iraq.

No one made up stories. Intelligence that shows links or certain capabilities and later turns out not to be accurate is simply the nature of intelligence. This type of thing happens every day.

That is why the central case for military action against Saddam was Saddam's failure to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD.

The Anti-War crowd had no NEW plan to remove or disarm Saddam. Many seemed to only be motivated by blind opposition to the use of military force.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-05-2004, 04:25 AM   #20
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,543
Local Time: 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I was not referering to you when I said terrorist and their supporters. In addition, Bush has never claimed that those that don't agree with the United States are terrorist.
You're either with us, or you're against us.

Then again, I might be a terrorist myself, since I'm apparently also an Al-Qaeda appeaser...



Marty
__________________
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 04-05-2004, 06:23 AM   #21
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 03:16 AM
Quote:
No one made up stories. Intelligence that shows links or certain capabilities and later turns out not to be accurate is simply the nature of intelligence. This type of thing happens every day.
Your inteligence services were warned by allied inteligence agencies (for example the germans) that the sources were not trustworthy.
So if you tell the people that you have informations but don't tell them that many countries say that you can't trust the whitnesses...
...it's pretty close to lying and "making up a story"

Quote:
The Anti-War crowd had no NEW plan to remove or disarm Saddam. Many seemed to only be motivated by blind opposition to the use of military force.
They had, remember that France and Germany announced that they wanted to present an alternative at the UN.
And UK and US met and said there would be not enough time for that meeting (4 days!) so they decided to go to war before that?
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-05-2004, 08:07 PM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus


Your inteligence services were warned by allied inteligence agencies (for example the germans) that the sources were not trustworthy.
So if you tell the people that you have informations but don't tell them that many countries say that you can't trust the whitnesses...
...it's pretty close to lying and "making up a story"



They had, remember that France and Germany announced that they wanted to present an alternative at the UN.
And UK and US met and said there would be not enough time for that meeting (4 days!) so they decided to go to war before that?
The central case for the war was not this "intelligence", but the fact that Saddam had failed to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD. That fact is indisputable. There is also no intelligence service anywhere that could claim that Saddam had no WMD, nor was there any that did.

The US Intelligence services take into account the information from other intelligence services and then advise the President. No one lied and this constant liberal attempt to slap that label on Bush has grown tired.

The French and German alternative was a joke and would have never been acceptable to Saddam or resolved the central issues in regards to the verifiable disarmament of Saddam.

France and Germany have had very little interest in accomplishing things in Iraq. A year after the war, what are Germany and France contributing to the economic, security and political development of Iraq? Germany and France's lack of involvement over the past year is another sign that their "alternative" was simply hot air and more of an attempt to simply prevent the overthrow of Saddam.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 07:30 PM   #23
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 03:16 AM
Quote:
The central case for the war was not this "intelligence", but the fact that Saddam had failed to VERIFIABLY DISARM of all WMD. That fact is indisputable. There is also no intelligence service anywhere that could claim that Saddam had no WMD, nor was there any that did.

"Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes"

Quote:
The US Intelligence services take into account the information from other intelligence services and then advise the President. No one lied and this constant liberal attempt to slap that label on Bush has grown tired.
They just didn't like what their inteligence service had to say so they started a new office which re-evaluated how credible and how dangerous their matieral was.
They knew exactly that their intelligence reports weren't as good as usual

Quote:
The French and German alternative was a joke and would have never been acceptable to Saddam or resolved the central issues in regards to the verifiable disarmament of Saddam.
You know it? afik they didn't present it to the public after the US decided to go to war a day before the UN met to discuss the French/German plan for iraq.

[quote]France and Germany have had very little interest in accomplishing things in Iraq. A year after the war, what are Germany and France contributing to the economic, security and political development of Iraq? Germany and France's lack of involvement over the past year is another sign that their "alternative" was simply hot air and more of an attempt to simply prevent the overthrow of Saddam.[quote]

It would have bin illegal for our Chancelor to support the Iraq war without a UN or NATO mandate.

And remember, it was the US who was slapping their face, so don't be suprised that they don't help the US like they used to.

Our (german) Foreign minister said "excuse me, but i'm not convinced" to your foreign minister in front of the UN.
And, if you listen to the speech of mr. powell again, most people wouldn't be convinced today from the "facts" he presented.
Besides the verifiably disarmment of Iraq most things presented were hot air.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-06-2004, 08:00 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 02:16 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Klaus



"Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes"



They just didn't like what their inteligence service had to say so they started a new office which re-evaluated how credible and how dangerous their matieral was.
They knew exactly that their intelligence reports weren't as good as usual



You know it? afik they didn't present it to the public after the US decided to go to war a day before the UN met to discuss the French/German plan for iraq.

[quote]France and Germany have had very little interest in accomplishing things in Iraq. A year after the war, what are Germany and France contributing to the economic, security and political development of Iraq? Germany and France's lack of involvement over the past year is another sign that their "alternative" was simply hot air and more of an attempt to simply prevent the overthrow of Saddam.
Quote:

It would have bin illegal for our Chancelor to support the Iraq war without a UN or NATO mandate.

And remember, it was the US who was slapping their face, so don't be suprised that they don't help the US like they used to.

Our (german) Foreign minister said "excuse me, but i'm not convinced" to your foreign minister in front of the UN.
And, if you listen to the speech of mr. powell again, most people wouldn't be convinced today from the "facts" he presented.
Besides the verifiably disarmment of Iraq most things presented were hot air.

Klaus
The cherry picked quotes of the President at various times over the past year are not the central case the president made to the United Nations in the fall of 2002.

The "intelligence" was supportive of the central case for war which was Verifiable Disarmament of Saddam.

I do know briefly what the French/German plan was. It was never officially laid out. If the French and Germans were serious about disarming Saddam, they would have presented this plan years ago.

The fact is, nothing short of the use of military force would have insured that SADDAM was disarmed.

The United Nations has approved the use of force against Saddam under UN resolutions 678, 687, and 1441.

In addition the United Nations has approved of the occupation in three different resolutions since the end of the war.

Still, France and Germany refuse to help out with the situation in Iraq.

The fact today is, the Iraqi people have a long and difficult road ahead of them to develop democracy and a stable government and the French and Germans are not supplying any money or troops to help the situation. This only suggests that the French and Germans have no interest in the removal or disarmament of Saddam or in the success of the develoment of a new Iraqi democracy.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 04-08-2004, 05:51 AM   #25
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
[B]
I do know briefly what the French/German plan was. It was never officially laid out.
Can you tell me how you were able to get access to their plan?

Quote:
If the French and Germans were serious about disarming Saddam, they would have presented this plan years ago.
This is like: "If the US would have bin serious about dissarming they would have removed Saddam years ago."

Quote:
The fact today is, the Iraqi people have a long and difficult road ahead of them to develop democracy and a stable government and the
that's true!

Quote:
French and Germans are not supplying any money or troops to help the situation.
wrong!

Germany was against this war, but they supported the US in the iraq war more than many of this so called "coalition"

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 03:35 PM   #26
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus


Germany was against this war, but they supported the US in the iraq war more than many of this so called "coalition"
Today the last Germans who helped to rebuild iraq left the country because of the lack of security.
But they want to return as soon as possible.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-12-2004, 03:44 PM   #27
New Yorker
 
Scarletwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside it's Amerika
Posts: 2,746
Local Time: 09:16 PM
Farout - yes
But many in the world view us this way.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle6028.htm
France Invades U.S.

Jerry Ghinelli

April 11 2004 "ICH" -- After months of build up, the French government, led by Jacques Chirac, launched a preemptive attack on the United States of America.
.
Declaring the US "a rogue nation in violation of international law and in defiance of UN resolution 1441," France launched a major ground offensive to overturn what they called "the illegitimate regime of George W. Bush." Citing the 2000 election as proof of an unlawful government, the French claimed they are invading the US to bring democracy to the American people. Termed Operation American Freedom, Jacques Chirac declared on French National TV: "the failure of the US to disarm and the threats against France by the unelected president has created the need to invade America in order to protect us against the inevitable aggression by the US along with Bush's stockpiling of weapons of mass destruction. The US, he declared, was part of an axis of evil along with the United Kingdom and Israel.

After a relentless bombing campaign termed "Le Shock e Le Awe," French along with a German coalition forces captured Washington DC and surrounding areas. German troops controlled territory from North Carolina to Florida.

Chirac appointed Dominique de Villepin as interim president and established a governing council of Americans. The complete transition to the American leadership is scheduled to occur on June 30 2004. Made up of African Americans, Native Americans, Mexican Americans, and a few white "Conservatives," this council will govern the newly liberated US beginning on July 1, 2004.

Meanwhile, former President George W. Bush has been arrested after a tip led to his capture in a "spider hole" just outside of Crawford, Texas. Bush was met by French soldiers with the greeting: "Jacques Chirac sends his regards." The American informant received 25 million Euros for the information and was given French citizenship and a change of identity. The former undisclosed American citizen who revealed "W's" whereabouts was hailed as a hero by the French media. George W. Bush was in good health and seen on TV with a beard, long hair and his trademark cowboy hat. His daughters vanished and his wife's whereabouts are unknown. President Bush has vowed his innocence and declared the French invasion illegal.

Meanwhile American Insurgents have fought the French army using guerrilla tactics and terrorist strikes. According to Chirac, these terrorists "hate freedom and will not succeed in our desire to bring peace, security and democracy to America." Chirac, when told of the upsurge in American resistance said: "Le' bring em on."

In a recent event, American insurgents attacked an SUV carrying four French Foreign Legion Mercenaries. Dragged from their vehicle, the four Frenchmen were executed and dragged through the streets of Arlington, Virginia. Burned and hacked the French "contractors" were despicably hung from a bridge over the Potomac. The French government promised to "pacify" the American terrorists "at a time and place of our choosing."

The French forces, equipped with helicopters, missiles and advanced weaponry, attacked Arlington, Virginia inflicting 490 American deaths and over 1000 injuries. Called operation Vigilant Resolve, the government of Jacques Chirac claimed the action was justified to avenge the killing and humiliation of the so-called French "contractors". Terrorism, Chirac declared, must be fought at all costs and France will never accept the approval of the anyone to protect it's citizens."

Meanwhile back in the US , American insurgents have retaken Charlotte, Savannah and Jacksonville. Chirac, declared these terrorists will be defeated and the will of the French people is unshakable. Chirac, after landing on the French Aircraft Carrier Napoleon, and declaring, "Mission Accomplished," has admitted over 500 French soldiers have been killed and 3000 were wounded by the criminals and terrorists of "freedom hating" Americans.

A spokesman for the Chirac announced today that Donald Rumsfeld has been captured but his detention remains classified. Donald Rumsfeld, the Ace of Diamonds in the Chirac's deck of cards, was the former Defense Secretary under the brutal undemocratic administration of George W. Bush. Rumsfeld, according to Chirac, was wanted "dead or alive". "The world today is a safer place with Rumsfeld in custody, "said Chirac.

With the French death toll now surpassing 650 and the American death toll in the tens of thousands, according to Chirac, "all human life is precious, even sometimes American, but such is the price of freedom and democracy."

In an extraordinary event, "High Priest" and former presidential candidate Pat Robertson declared today "Christian Jihad" against what he called the French "Atheists". Citing, "better to die as a martyr," Robertson appealed to all Christians to expel the French invaders and return the US to it's Christian traditions. Robertson has issued a "Fatwa" declaring the French "Atheists" as illegal invaders and to attack them with passion. "Jesus is Great," declared Robertson. The French government met in Paris this morning and declared Robertson an enemy of the American people and issued a warrant for his arrest.

In a stunning new development, the French government announced an estimated 10,000 Americans have been detained by French, German, Bulgarian, Ukrainian and Polish coalition forces in newly built "rehabilitation" camp in West Virginia. Branded as "terrorists" these detainees, according to interim president de Villepin, are treated in accordance with Geneva Convention rules. However, he has denied the Red Cross or any human rights groups access to inspect living conditions in the West Virginia "rehabilitation" camp.

Today Chirac and Schroeder issued a communiqué announcing their scheduled meeting in Paris later this week to discuss the ever increasing terrorist violence in the the US. Chirac and Schroeder will discuss the transfer of power the American council on June 30 and how to combat the growing American insurgency.

Chirac and Schroeder concluded their communiqué stating: Vive la France and Deutschland Uber Alles.
__________________
Scarletwine is offline  
Old 04-27-2004, 03:46 PM   #28
The Fly
 
max d.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 33
Local Time: 02:16 AM
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1078397702269
__________________
max d. is offline  
Old 04-27-2004, 04:21 PM   #29
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 08:16 PM
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-27-2004, 04:30 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 06:16 PM
I'd be interested to see more. Israel's intelligence group is highly regarded.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com