ex-gay penguin program a failure at German zoo - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-09-2006, 02:27 PM   #1
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 09:29 PM
ex-gay penguin program a failure at German zoo

[q]Germany's gay zoo penguins still fending off female advances Wed Feb 8, 3:08 PM ET



Six gay penguins at a German zoo are still refusing to mate with females of the species flown in from Sweden in 2005, the zoo said.

The problem was that the female Humboldt penguins have proven too shy in their advances, the director of the zoo in the northern port city of Bremerhaven said.

"The Swedes will not make the first move," Heike Kueck said.

The females were flown in last year in a bid to bring the males to mate and help save the Humboldt species from extinction.

Kueck said last year she was optimistic the initiative would be successful because zoo keepers had noticed that at one point a female penguin had managed to cause a couple of males to "separate".

The zoo has 10 male penguins of which six have shown strong signs of preferring male company and formed couples among themselves.

The initiative to "turn" the penguins and make them mate had prompted a furious response from gay rights groups.

In a statement posted on its Internet website, the zoo on Wednesday sought to defend itself from fresh criticism.

"We will be delighted if the penguins form even one heterosexual couple and manage to produce first an egg, and then a little one," it said.

"But of course we accept the male couples that have formed and we are not trying to enforce heterosexuality, as we were accused of doing last year."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060208...DRpBHNlYwM3NTc

[/q]

__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:32 PM   #2
Refugee
 
angel_of_L.A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Where soul meets body...
Posts: 1,074
Local Time: 07:29 PM
Good for the penguins!
__________________

__________________
angel_of_L.A. is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:36 PM   #3
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 09:29 PM


penguins!!!



__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:38 PM   #4
Refugee
 
angel_of_L.A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Where soul meets body...
Posts: 1,074
Local Time: 07:29 PM
Did you see March of the Penguins? I bawled like a baby!!!
__________________
angel_of_L.A. is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:40 PM   #5
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by angel_of_L.A.
Did you see March of the Penguins? I bawled like a baby!!!


i refuse to watch a movie where baby animals die.

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:49 PM   #6
Refugee
 
angel_of_L.A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Where soul meets body...
Posts: 1,074
Local Time: 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i refuse to watch a movie where baby animals die.

For some reason, I wasn't expecting death so when it happened it shocked me a bit. But overall, it was a wonderful documentary.

Penguins have so many socio-cultural behaviors that resemble us. Humans, we're really not that special in comparison to the rest of nature. We just like to think we are.
__________________
angel_of_L.A. is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:30 PM   #7
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 09:29 PM

"I wish I could quit you pengy"
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:25 PM   #8
War Child
 
shrmn8rpoptart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seward, NE
Posts: 516
Local Time: 08:29 PM
at the risk making myself sound like a complete idiot...

i'll acknowledge that these are animals simply acting on natural instinct and am ready to follow that evidence to its logical conlusion.

however, if enough of these penguins fail to mate in a procreative fashion, it would appear from what was said in the article, that this particular species will become extinct. were there other factors involved in this process? undoubtedly yes. but the males reluctance to mate with females appears to be their ultimate undoing as a species.

so without making any value judgements, where does that put this particular instinct in the system of natural selection? if species continue through a survival of the fittest, then does that mean that something that causes them not to survive is a weakness or flaw? and if so, does that mean that this particualr instinct that these animals have is a weakness or flaw? or is nature less concerned with the continuation of species and more concerned with the happiness of individual forms of life?
__________________
shrmn8rpoptart is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:39 PM   #9
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
at the risk making myself sound like a complete idiot...

i'll acknowledge that these are animals simply acting on natural instinct and am ready to follow that evidence to its logical conlusion.

however, if enough of these penguins fail to mate in a procreative fashion, it would appear from what was said in the article, that this particular species will become extinct. were there other factors involved in this process? undoubtedly yes. but the males reluctance to mate with females appears to be their ultimate undoing as a species.

so without making any value judgements, where does that put this particular instinct in the system of natural selection? if species continue through a survival of the fittest, then does that mean that something that causes them not to survive is a weakness or flaw? and if so, does that mean that this particualr instinct that these animals have is a weakness or flaw? or is nature less concerned with the continuation of species and more concerned with the happiness of individual forms of life?
Maybe God thinks they make cute couples.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:39 PM   #10
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:29 PM
If homosexual penguins have siblings then they share 50% of their genetic material with them, having a nonbreeding sib to increase the fitness of neices and nephews could be a reason that the factors for this behaviour pop up at a certain frequency within the population.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:07 PM   #11
War Child
 
shrmn8rpoptart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seward, NE
Posts: 516
Local Time: 08:29 PM
i'm very ignorant, how do they increase the fitness of their nieces and nephews? i just don't take the meaning. are they out foraging for the youngsters? or does it thin out the possible breeding pool, increasing the chance that the fittest will find each other? (which seems like it would be counterintuitive)

sorry, i haven't taken bio since 2001, so i'm struggling to remember some of this stuff (if i ever learned it in the first place)
__________________
shrmn8rpoptart is offline  
Old 02-09-2006, 11:28 PM   #12
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:29 PM
Well fitness would be probability of reproductive success, the passing on of genetic material through sex.

Lets say that a chick without an additional helping adult has a 30% chance at breeding sucessfully (there may be a shortage of food or strong sexual selection, the cause is irrelevent). In that situation being a parent without a helping "gay" sibling would mean that 50% of your genetic material goes into your offspring who have a 30% chance at surviving. Take 50% of 30% and you get your 15%

Now if you are a sibling you share 50% genetic material with your siblings (first order relatives). Now if they have a chick with another then the offspring will share 25% genetic material with you, now if aiding this chick increases it's reproductive sucess rate to 80% (look just pulling numbers out of thin air to illustrate a point, but in borderline starvation conditions having an additional adult to forage could be useful) then you have 25% of that 80% genetic material. By being celibate or homosexual and assisting in the raising the chick then that 20% (25% of 80%) goes to you.

The 80% chance of passing down 25% of genetic material (20%) is better than a 30% chance of passing down 50% of your genetic material (15%) and families with "gay genes" (or the causative factors, it is not going to be reducable to a single switch) would be favoured.

Homosexuality is a behaviour that occurs in the natural world, as is altruisitc behaviour and things that at first glance do not make sense in an evolution red in tooth and claw view but do when we look at it in a nuanced way of how those behaviours are beneficial to individual genetic material then they yield logical and testable answers.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 02-10-2006, 12:19 AM   #13
Refugee
 
mandy1973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Far away...this ship is taking me far away
Posts: 2,460
Local Time: 12:59 PM
I wonder if you can artificially inseminate a penguin?



Maybe they should dress the girl penguins as boys?

__________________
mandy1973 is offline  
Old 02-10-2006, 08:22 AM   #14
War Child
 
a-mole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Groningen, Netherlands
Posts: 665
Local Time: 03:29 AM
interesting

i love penguins.. i stil need to se the march of the penguins. I know i will cry, but nature is nature
__________________
a-mole is offline  
Old 02-10-2006, 09:10 AM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 02:29 AM
Interesting. I saw "March of the Penguins" too. Great movie.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com